Hiking Fissure 8

[Rob Tucker]

You folks are really worrying this to death. Like middle schoolers with a loose tooth.

[knieft]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rob Tucker

You folks are really worrying this to death. Like middle schoolers with a loose tooth.

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Upper elementary.

Cheers,
Kirt

[ElysianWort]

I have a friend that lives down Kupono st in Leilani. For those of you who don't know, Kupono is almost all the way to the end of the main road. If you look further ahead there is the mass of piled lava which covered the avenue and is now part of fissure 8.

I visit almost weekly and every time I pass the area there is one or two cars parked off onto the grass there. Often rental looking type cars. For sure occupants trying to find a way to hike out there.

So even though there is "no parking" people make parking.

I bet most of them don't make it far before turning back.

I didn't notice any "No Trespassing" signs but I never got a close look and never went out. I just turn off towards friends before reaching the end.

[MarkD]

For those who might wonder why hikers are fixated on roaming over lava fields, here is part of the answer:

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The Freedom to Roam

Excerpts from Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam

"The freedom to roam, or "everyman's right", is the general public's right to access certain public or privately owned land, lakes, and rivers for recreation and exercise...

In Scotland, the Nordic countries of Finland, Iceland, Norway...(etc.)...(some) Central European countries..., the freedom to roam takes the form of general public rights which are sometimes codified in law. Ancient traces provide evidence of the freedom to roam in many European countries, suggesting such a freedom was once a common norm...

the right usually does not include...hunting or logging, or disruptive activities, such as making fires and driving offroad vehicles...

In Finland...everyone may walk, ski, ride a horse or cycle freely in the countryside where this does not harm the natural environment or the landowner, except in gardens or in the immediate vicinity of people's homes (yards)...

Everyone in Norway enjoys the right of access to, and passage through, uncultivated land in the countryside...

In England and Wales, after a polarized debate, in 2000 the Government legislated to introduce a limited right to roam, without compensation for landowners...

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In America, where private property rights are considered inviolate, this thinking is widely regarded as absurd and a tenet of communist ideology.

[SBH]

Hawaii already has similar rights for public access to beaches and coastal areas. Hawaii will even acquire private land to give the public that coastal access.

https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/occl/beach-access/

https://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurren..._0115-.HTM

[SBH]

News today on Big Island Video News about acquiring Pohue Bay for public access.

http://www.bigislandvideonews.com/2019/0...n-briefly/

Should this Public Access, Open Space and Natural Resources Preservation Commission consider preserving the Leilani fissures for public access?

http://records.hawaiicounty.gov/weblink/...spx?dbid=1&id=96533&cr=1

Are the land owners in Leilani that now have fissures on their property really going to want to rebuild a home on top of “their fissure”? What is going to happen to those properties right on top of the rift zone?

A quarter billion dollars for recovery efforts in Puna from the eruption, what is going to be done to help these land owners who can’t really live on, build on or sell their properties?

[MarkD]

"Hawaii already has similar rights for public access to beaches and coastal areas.
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That's because all shorelines are public property. Private coastal property ends at the highest wash of the waves. But there are numerous ongoing hassles with coastal homeowners statewide regarding access.

These hassles primarily occur in places where large beaches do not front those homes. Most of Hawaii lacks wide beaches, and it's getting worse with sea level rise. And almost all of Hawaii Island's coasts are rocky or cliff girded.

I won't get into the hassles, but they involves both a) getting to the ocean b) walking along the shoreline once you are there (lateral coastal access).

Shoreline access issues and the matter of whether people should be able to traverse private property inland in a natural state are largely separate topics.

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"what is going to be done to help these land owners who can’t really live on, build on or sell their properties?"

good question, important topic

[kalakoa]

what is going to be done to help these land owners who can't really live on, build on or sell their properties?

County is organizing a series of "listening sessions" and surveys to "determine the need". This effort will last until the FEMA grant money is exhausted.

New building permits for Leilani are "being evaluated" (read: "on hold" until the above process is complete).

(Whether snark or serious ... end results are the same ...)

I believe County will ultimately do little or nothing about the situation simply because a truly meaningful response would be highly disruptive, and our collective representatives (Senators, Representatives, Mayor and Council) will not risk the necessary political capital, finding various liabilities to use as an excuse.

Example solutions.

1. PONC buys out any/all landowners, lava becomes a County park (ideally affiliated with HVNP somehow) with private inholdings. Replacement infrastructure is a reasonable expense so that people (read: tourists) can visit the park safely.

2. County establishes a VR zoning overlay (using the existing "ag tourism" rules so as not to require State land-use boundary adjustments). Valuation increase makes redevelopment economically both feasible and self-funded. Tourism spending revitalizes Pahoa town.

3. County "downzones" the area: no new building permits will be issued; instead, create permitting system for standalone septic system installation as a prerequisite for habitation. Done correctly, this results in something like Kalapana (but with proper sanitation). Real estate valuations are low, but still collect enough property taxes for minimal County services.

Reality on the ground remains: these are legal parcels which allow a primary dwelling by right. County cannot deny those rights without just compensation. People are allowed to live there, so people will live there, for whatever reason. Have all the shacks on the Kalapana lava flow been red-tagged for non-compliance? No? Why does anyone think Leilani will turn out any differently?

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

County is organizing a series of "listening sessions"

Perhaps Hawaii County could hire Dr. Frazier Crane for a Listening Session Hotline which Puna residents could call. So they know someone hears their concerns. “I’m listening:”

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/017236f5-e7...6640b9c8ea

[leilanidude]

I didn't notice any "No Trespassing" signs but I never got a close look and never went out.
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Every single side street in Leilani has private road, no trespassing and no parking signs, right after you turn off of Leilani Street. On Kupono and Moku, there are numerous private property/no trespassing signs in front of the various destroyed properties as well as in front of properties that still have a house and people living there. There are also similar signs at the end of each of those side streets that are cutoff by the flow. It is beginning to look like a "sign ghetto".