Restrictions to continue!

[Durian Fiend]

...herd immunity is, but for me and by it's own definition, it simply means a virus no longer has substantial impact within a community due to the fact the virus has more difficulty making it's way through a community with a high immune rate and connecting to a person who isn't immune. Very simple. Covid-19 is no longer having a substantial impact in Sweden, particularly relative to places like Hawaii or Washington State, etc. 

A distinction can be made with immunity to infection and immunity to severe disease.  We've learned the former hasn't been achieved anywhere.  

Severe disease?  It apparently depends upon level of infection and/or vaccination, plus health of population.  

I don't know about the hospital burden in Sweden, but they do have a much higher rate of vaccination than U.S. and a healthier population, with not nearly so much obesity.  

So why do you suppose they're still requiring all foreign visitors to be vaccinated and recently instituted proof of vaccination to attend some public events?

Israel and Iceland may be two countries that are now free of substantial impact. Hawaii may be there too, for all we know!

[Wao nahele kane]

Uh, Iceland just peaked it's worst infection rate and still way up there with infections relative to it's past experience with the virus. That isn't herd immunity, that simply means it's 'temporarily' run out people to kill due to the vaccines waning properties and inability to stop transmission amongst it's recipients. The virus is still alive and and well established within the community and easily transmitted. Therefore, to maintain this status of severe complications protection, Icelanders are stuck with taking boosters indefinitely to continue to protect themselves from severe complications of the virus.
Sweden on the other hand, doesn't have mass transmission or a 3rd/4th wave, therefore the herd is immune and the virus isn't easily transmitted amongst the nation. Why Sweden has implemented vaccine requirements for foriegners, is irrelevant and proves nothing with respect to it's current status regarding it's herd immune status.

Isreal is much like Iceland, still reliant upon boosters to stave off severe complications as they just cleared a 4th wave. But the virus, is still within the population and the population has no way of stopping the transmission of the virus when the next wave strikes... AND it WILL strike again, because this vaccine doesn't stop the transmission of the virus like a true vaccine would and leaves it's recipients who didn't aquire natural immunity before becoming vaccinated, a continued booster dependent individual. That is a first ever for a mass "vaccinated" population, it's the worst vaccine ever made and unfortunately, used globally, in mass.

[MyManao]

Sweden on the other hand, doesn't have mass transmission or a 3rd/4th wave, therefore the herd is immune and the virus isn't easily transmitted amongst the nation...

Seriously? Where do you get your news?

Currently the folks in Sweden are just like the rest of the folks over there.. experiencing an increase in infection rates, and considering, putting in place, further restrictions and mandates. 

From https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-a...ronavirus/

In Sweden... concerns are rising about a looming fourth wave. There are currently no restrictions on gatherings and no mask mandate, but on Wednesday the government said that, from December 1, only those who can prove full vaccination may attend indoor events for more than 100 people.

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

It represents the opinions and views of a couple Amish men that were interviewed.

Yes, OK, the interviewer was a woman, the respondents were Amish. I missed that detail.  The full quote from your link with a question from the interviewer, acknowledgment and approval from the Amish man, was:


Sharyl (interviewer): So, it's safe to say there was a whole different approach here in this community when coronavirus broke out than many other places?

Calvin Lapp (Amish man): Absolutely.





You're attempting to apply an absolute whole to a general group/class label. In other words, you're presenting sophistry as an argument to disqualify these men as the Amish 


My comment was the exact opposite.  I was trying to to say the question and acknowledgement by the Amish man in the article about COVID herd immunity reflected the opinion of one, single, individual Amish person, who is certainly entitled to his own opinion as a member of his Amish community, but not a general group or class:


"Her comment is certainly true for her personally, perhaps for her community.  Is it true for all Amish communities, 10’s of thousands of Amish individuals across the Midwest? I doubt it." - HOTPE




You, in your post tried to extrapolate that into a broad based concept for all Amish, as if the respondent was some kind of Amish Pope, speaking as a leader for all Amish, which he's not:


the Amish who purposely exposed themselves in mass

[Wao nahele kane]

It represents the opinions and views of a couple Amish men that were interviewed.

Yes, OK, the interviewer was a woman, the respondents were Amish. I missed that detail.  The full quote from your link with a question from the interviewer, acknowledgment and approval from the Amish man, was:


Sharyl (interviewer): So, it's safe to say there was a whole different approach here in this community when coronavirus broke out than many other places?

Calvin Lapp (Amish man): Absolutely.





You're attempting to apply an absolute whole to a general group/class label. In other words, you're presenting sophistry as an argument to disqualify these men as the Amish 


My comment was the exact opposite.  I was trying to to say the question and acknowledgement by the Amish man in the article about COVID herd immunity reflected the opinion of one, single, individual Amish person, not a general group or class:


"Her comment is certainly true for her personally, perhaps for her community.  Is it true for all Amish communities, 10’s of thousands of Amish individuals across the Midwest? I doubt it." - HOTPE




You, in your post tried to extrapolate that into a broad based concept for all Amish


the Amish who purposely exposed themselves in mass

I tried to extrapolate that into a broad based concept for ALL Amish and you draw that from? the Amish oɥʍ purposely exposed themselves in mass... That? Does that say (the Amish purposely exposed themselves in mass)? Note the word "who" after Amish? It distinguishes them from the Amish as whole or the Amish 'who' didn't purposely expose themselves in mass. If we take out the word 'who' from what I wrote, your claim that I extrapolated a broad case concept for all Amish might carry validity, but the word 'who' distinguishes a subset within the Amish. The Amish who are women would not like us to express that the Amish are women. Who introduces a whole new meaning within a sentence? See what I did there?

So, you missed the part where she was the interviewer and not the Amish and the part where the word "who" distinguishes a sub category of the Amish. 

?

This is fascinating and amusing all at the same time, but I have a fence section to install.

---

Sweden on the other hand, doesn't have mass transmission or a 3rd/4th wave, therefore the herd is immune and the virus isn't easily transmitted amongst the nation...

Seriously? Where do you get your news?

Currently the folks in Sweden are just like the rest of the folks over there.. experiencing an increase in infection rates, and considering, putting in place, further restrictions and mandates. 

From https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-a...ronavirus/

In Sweden... concerns are rising about a looming fourth wave. There are currently no restrictions on gatherings and no mask mandate, but on Wednesday the government said that, from December 1, only those who can prove full vaccination may attend indoor events for more than 100 people.

Evidently you didn't read the article you cited, because it enforces what I wrote. Go back and read it ALL again, this time, very carefully.

So the question is, why are so many people here incapable of comprehending what they read? Seems to be an infectious thing going on.
Definitely time to split and install my fence section, I fear a zombie apocalypse is approaching next.

[Wao nahele wahine]

Sweden on the other hand, doesn't have mass transmission or a 3rd/4th wave, therefore the herd is immune and the virus isn't easily transmitted amongst the nation...

Seriously? Where do you get your news?

Currently the folks in Sweden are just like the rest of the folks over there.. experiencing an increase in infection rates, and considering, putting in place, further restrictions and mandates. 

From https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-a...ronavirus/

In Sweden... concerns are rising about a looming fourth wave. There are currently no restrictions on gatherings and no mask mandate, but on Wednesday the government said that, from December 1, only those who can prove full vaccination may attend indoor events for more than 100 people.

How about posting the full quote from the article, which negates your point:  'In Sweden, where virus rates remain below those of neighboring states including Denmark and Norway, concerns are rising about a looming fourth wave.'

My take from that is that Sweden is watching the rates of neighboring countries.  Currently, Sweden's case rates have remained low and steady if you review the charts at Worldometer.  

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

Wao nahele kane, you wrote:

Some communities and nations have reached natural herd immunity...Those places would be, but not limited to; New York, Sweden, Italy, smaller communities such as the Amish who purposely exposed themselves in mass
...
That? Does that say (the Amish purposely exposed themselves in mass)? Note the word "who" after Amish? It distinguishes them from the Amish as whole



Your statement in context includes the Amish with an entire state (New York) and countries (Sweden & Italy).  But what you meant was not THE Amish, or all Amish, but one Amish guy or perhaps a few Amish men or women who exposed themselves to COVID, and somehow managed to get their population as a whole to reach herd immunity?


Herd immunity.
“You keep using that word (those words). I do not think it means what you think it means.” -Inigo Montoya,

[Durian Fiend]

..Isreal is much like Iceland, still reliant upon boosters to stave off severe complications as they just cleared a 4th wave. But the virus, is still within the population and the population has no way of stopping the transmission of the virus when the next wave strikes... AND it WILL strike again, because this vaccine doesn't stop the transmission of the virus like a true vaccine would..

Oh, I see.  You're an anti vaxxer who has "done their own research".  
Well, you're wrong.  Vaccines don't stop the virus, nor does previous infection.  

For turning this plague into a manageable disease, get vaccinated. 

"...The main dividing line is age. In Minnesota, which publishes detailed Covid data, the death rate for fully vaccinated people under 50 during the Delta surge this year was 0.0 per 100,000 — meaning, so few people died that the rate rounds to zero.
Washington State is another place that publishes statistics by age and vaccination status. In its most recent report, Washington did not even include a death rate for fully vaccinated residents under 65. It was too low to be meaningful.
Hospitalization rates are also very low for vaccinated people under 65. In Minnesota during the Delta surge, the average weekly hospitalization rate for vaccinated residents between 18 and 49 was about 1 per 100,000..."

[Wao nahele kane]

Wao nahele kane, you wrote:

Some communities and nations have reached natural herd immunity...Those places would be, but not limited to; New York, Sweden, Italy, smaller communities such as the Amish who purposely exposed themselves in mass
...
That? Does that say (the Amish purposely exposed themselves in mass)? Note the word "who" after Amish? It distinguishes them from the Amish as whole



Your statement in context includes the Amish with an entire state (New York) and countries (Sweden & Italy).  But what you meant was not THE Amish, or all Amish, but one Amish guy or perhaps a few Amish men or women who exposed themselves to COVID, and somehow managed to get their population as a whole to reach herd immunity?


Herd immunity.
“You keep using that word (those words). I do not think it means what you think it means.” -Inigo Montoya,

Let's break it down for you since you're having trouble comprehending the meaning of the statement.

"Some communities and nations have reached natural herd immunity...Those places would be, but not limited to; New York, Sweden, Italy, smaller communities such as the Amish who purposely exposed themselves in mass"

First relative portion. "... smaller communities (plural) such as the Amish who (denoting a descriptive subset of Amish communities is to be referenced) purposely exposed themselves in mass (finally, the described subset of Amish communities refered to)"

One of those communities that purposely exposed themselves to the virus, not engaging in the protective measures recommended or mandated by the state was cited by a reporter who visited the community and found a couple members from said community and interviewed them. It's that simple

Thus it means there were Amish communities that purposely exposed themselves in mass. Very simple to comprehend, how you got to the absurd assumptions you made from it, is anyone's guess. But it's become abundantly clear that your not playing with a full deck. 
I will not reply to anymore nonsense you conjure from thin air on this matter. 

[HereOnThePrimalEdge]

But it's become abundantly clear that your not playing with a full deck. 

I don’t believe that’s the problem.  You’re trying to say the Amish interviewed are not all the Amish, but on the other hand all of some Amish communities have reached herd immunity. Why not include some facts and percentages?  Like which Amish communities and how many?  One? Ten?  You’re trying to have it both ways.  Maybe more than both ways.

You’re certainly not playing with less than a full deck.  You’re attempting to play with two decks or more, and argue that you’re not. So no matter what cards are dealt you claim you’ve won. When you’re called out for it, you accuse the person of being mentally deficient, pack up your decks of many cards, Jokers included, and go home.

Give us some details about the Amish herd immunity, more than what might be meant by an interviewer's question and one person's reply.  You're reading paragraphs in between the lines. 

Here's a start.  Headline from a month ago:
Is an Amish community in Pennsylvania’s Lancaster County the first U.S. subpopulation to achieve herd immunity against COVID-19?
https://healthexec.com/topics/covid-19/v...lain-sight

I'd say that's one.  Out of hundreds or thousands.