The Bicker Board

[TomK]

However, I was speaking of a predominantly "black"...

Being clear again, [...]

Sorry, HiloJulie, but why don't you just write normal sentences? I think many on PW would appreciate it.  Your sentences are not clear; they tend to be very clumsy, so just write what you think. Stop posting as if you're a lawyer; we all know you aren't, and just say what you think. Just post as if you were talking to someone.

[leilanidude]

Sorry, HiloJulie, but why don't you just write normal sentences? I think many on PW would appreciate it. Your sentences are not clear; they tend to be very clumsy, so just write what you think. Stop posting as if you're a lawyer; we all know you aren't, and just say what you think. Just post as if you were talking to someone.
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He/she can't - the fake persona has been evolving. Look back to the early posts and compare. It must be difficult for he/she to remember all the lies.
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just like I am sure that as a white woman you would never stand in front of a majority black group of people and say something like, "I'm a h___ of a lot smarter than most of you.", because saying or condoning something like that would make you a hypocrite which you clearly are not.
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He/she has clearly done that, repeatedly, on Punaweb.

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Further, I would never call an African American female (or male) or for that matter, any other race of people, a "black" (or any other color or offensive word use to denominate a persons race) "chick." (or equally as offensive derogatory male term)
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Odd statement. Black is no more derogatory than white. I work with three black guys and one black woman in my current contract job. Third time I have been at this company. I am the lead for the project and after knowing them, would stand up and defend them for anything. All four of them absolutely refuse the term, African American as they find it, derogatory and insulting. They are Americans and are black and will tell you exactly that, if you call them African American. Interesting that all four are also very conservative, politically and cannot stand what the liberals have done to black people over the decades. These four all earn between $175k to $200k
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p.s. - Two of them have been to Hawaii before and they are utterly fascinated by the dynamics of race and ethnicity in Hawaii and that there is no majority of any type. Also noted is that jokes and comments are common between the various races and ethnic types and that no one gets offended. One of the guys has stayed in my ohana a couple times over the years and we have been in Luquins (granted, the old, pre-fire one) as well as the Blackrock and Kaleos'. Those of you that aren't fictitious people might think back and be able to recall seeing Michael and I together. He is the kind of person that makes friends anywhere he goes. He was commenting recently that we should do another trip. If the company relaxes remote work a bit, that will probably happen.

[HiloJulie]

However, I was speaking of a predominantly "black"...

Being clear again, [...]

Sorry, HiloJulie, but why don't you just write normal sentences? I think many on PW would appreciate it.  Your sentences are not clear; they tend to be very clumsy, so just write what you think. Stop posting as if you're a lawyer; we all know you aren't, and just say what you think. Just post as if you were talking to someone.

I have been very clear from the get go. From the very first point I made about the offensive term used to call a highly accomplished Black or African American woman a "black chick." Further, I never mentioned girl band names, which the conversation was attempted to be changed to, nor do I care if Black people want to be called African American's or Blacks, or if they call each other the N word.

I have been abundantly clear that calling the woman I discussed a "black chick" is the issue. 

I write just as I talk. Further, I think instead of trying to discredit myself, my occupation, my sentence structures, try comprehending words.

Odd statement. Black is no more derogatory than white. I work with three black guys and one black woman in my current contract job. Third time I have been at this company. I am the lead for the project and after knowing them, would stand up and defend them for anything. All four of them absolutely refuse the term, African American as they find it, derogatory and insulting. They are Americans and are black and will tell you exactly that, if you call them African American. Interesting that all four are also very conservative, politically and cannot stand what the liberals have done to black people over the decades. These four all earn between $175k to $200k

So, regardless of their preferred desire to be called Black versus African American, would you ever walk into the Black woman's office and say "Good morning you "black chick?"" or "Hey, where is the "black chick?" or "Get me some coffee "black chick?" or "What are you doing this weekend "black chick?" or "For a "black chick" you did a great job? or "You are the best "black chick" I ever worked with?"

Further, their political views or salaries are irrelevant to the entire point I have been making all along about calling a very accomplished Black, or if you desire, an African American woman a "black chick."

I will however, just an aside, point out that the African American or Black woman I have been discussing all along, the one referred to as the "black chick" by a certain other poster here on PunaWeb, retired from United Airlines earning a little north of a half million a year. I won't bring up the conversation she and I had the last time I was on a flight she was the Captain of about her feelings of the entire conservative political party's destruction of America as it would break virtually every PunaWeb rule about National Politics.

One more comment/observation:

Hey, Ironyak, why, once the term "black chick" entered the realm of the conversation, did you go radio silent?

Would love to hear your thoughts on the subject!

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How about we all cut each other a tiny bit of slack - maybe reset - and try to put some energy into things we all do agree on?

Hey, Tang, as part of this reset, and as an extended olive branch from me, I'd like to make a suggestion. 

Please reconsider this self imposed 3 post per day limit you have set for yourself. All past issues aside, if you have something to say, say it. Don't stifle your creativity by some arbitrary self imposed road block that has no real basis in accomplishing anything. Let your voice be heard.

Now, being very clear, Rob's very long standing rule is 5 posts per day average. Some days, you may make 10 posts, other days 1 or 2 or even none. In a 30, 60, 90 day time frame, and making 3 posts each and every day, you will generate far more TOTAL posts, than just being you, and posting as you see fit ever could.

So Tang, what you say? Let your voice flow like Madame Pele's fountains of lava? Or be stifled under a cloak of a self imposed rule that serves no purpose?

[ironyak]

Morning Julie et al,

Haven't been chiming in here as there are only so many hours in a day, and some of us are still obligated to make hay while the sun shines. By the time I check in, half the posts have been deleted so am left sifting through fragments of conversations and broken threads.

Generally I tend to call people by whatever they like, whether that's their preferred moniker, pronoun, self-identified ethnicity, whatevs. Conversely I tend not to get my knickers in a twist over any term in particular, but focus more on the intent behind it. Words are just signifiers and within certain communities you can exchange slurs as terms of affection, while outside of that community the term is used to promote hate.

Hawai'i has a vibrant mix of people and cultures and so we all get to navigate these often choppy waters on the regular. Can only try to tune the ear to distinguish "Hey haole! :)" vs "f'in haole!" vs "f'in haoles, amirite" (yeah some days it's definitely f'in haoles..., shake my head too brah)

Anyway back to strumming mode - maybe work on that version of Imagine: D---D-DU-UD-DUD- (are you f'in kidding me? Guess I'm lucky there's no taps in there as well, break this poor haole's brain...)

[MyManao]

Just goes on and on and on...

OMG, girl, faux pearls are ok for clutching day to day.. but those really cheap ones? How embarrassing. Kinda reminds me when the Dixie Chicks played the trailer parks.

[HiloJulie]

Morning Julie et al,
...while outside of that community the term is used to promote hate.

Mid Afternoon back at ya Yak!

Thanks for replying and confirming that using the term "black chick" about a highly accomplished Black, or African American, or female person of color by an over 60 white male is well outside of that community and the term was solely used to promote hate.

It was what I thought, thanks for the confirmation!

[ironyak]

Unfortunately for you Julie, you don't get to hide behind reading comprehension issues like some Punawebbers, so I know that you understand that while any particularly term can be used to promote hate, particularly by those outside the targeted group, it doesn't mean every such use of the term is automatically hateful.

Having not seen all the deleted messages, I really don't know MyManao's intent, and don't presume to guess. Probably a prototypical example of when to assume the best, and ask questions. :)

[HiloJulie]

Probably a prototypical example of when to assume the best, and ask questions.

To recap:

In my original post to you answering your question about my claim that all of humanity is inherently discriminitory, I posted this as the last paragraph:

Bringing this back to Hawaii, back when both my husband and I commuted quite often from either Hilo or Kona to LAX, on a significant amount of the "red eye" flights that left Hawaii late at night and arrived in LA at 5AM or so, a numerous amount of those flights had at least one woman, and a surprising amount of those flights had two women "behind the wheel." On several occasions, some of those flights had customers, ALL of them males, and once realizing who was going to be flying the plane were female, decided to not take the flight, and seek other means to go back to LA. Similar to the mentality that lead a recently departed political activist loved by millions of people to once opine that “If I see a Black pilot, I’m going to be like, ‘Boy, I hope he’s qualified.’”

So, yeah, I'd say that all of humanity is inherently discriminatory. 

The Dude then replied:

a numerous amount of those flights had at least one woman, and a surprising amount of those flights had two women "behind the wheel."
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Doubtful. The longer flights on the big planes are awarded based upon seniority (ask the union on that) and since women pilots were not that numerous they would not have had the flight hours needed to bump their way to those flights. I will ask my friend, captain mark who is now flying semi-retired for American and who flew trip7's for years from DFW to HNL, KOA, OGG and LIH his thoughts. He currently flies 787's twice a month from DFW to various South American cities on contract, for $820 an hour. Nice gig if you can get it!

I then replied to the Dude with these two videos of the woman I have been discussing all along:





And then it started, with this:

land this plane of ideas you're piloting both in Hawaii and about God..

Seems to me reams of waxing nostalgically about black chicks flying planes is a hard stretch. In fact, going on about flying to and fro ain't really got anything to do with Puna, Hawaii either, does it? Though start a thread of its own and see if it flies.. in fact maybe try that whenever the itch strikes. It certainly would make it easier for those that don't use the blocking function to navigate..

As for this particular thread it just seemed like oil and water..

So call it what you may. But calling it anything else other than it being a racist, bigoted, demeaning and/or hateful comment is even a bigger problem than some old white dude calling an accomplished African American, or Black woman a "black chick."

[Rob Tucker]

Wow, you convinced me. There are bigoted people out there. Wow.

Personally I trust the airline companies to decide if they want to entrust their aircraft and the lives of their passengers to anyone.

[TomK]

However, I was speaking of a predominantly "black"...

Being clear again, [...]

Sorry, HiloJulie, but why don't you just write normal sentences? I think many on PW would appreciate it.  Your sentences are not clear; they tend to be very clumsy, so just write what you think. Stop posting as if you're a lawyer; we all know you aren't, and just say what you think. Just post as if you were talking to someone.

I have been very clear from the get go. From the very first point I made about the offensive term used to call a highly accomplished Black or African American woman a "black chick." Further, I never mentioned girl band names, which the conversation was attempted to be changed to, nor do I care if Black people want to be called African American's or Blacks, or if they call each other the N word.

I have been abundantly clear that calling the woman I discussed a "black chick" is the issue. 

I write just as I talk. Further, I think instead of trying to discredit myself, my occupation, my sentence structures, try comprehending words.

The same could be said about you regarding comprehension. Nothing I wrote in response to you is about a "black chick".  Yet that's what you go on about. All I'm suggesting is that you write your sentences as if you were talking to someone. And quite frankly, if I met someone who talked to me in the same way you write sentences, alarm bells would be ringing in my head, and I'd walk away after politely saying "thanks, but I have somewhere else to be".