Meeting and Petition for Pesky Helicopters

[mella l]

Thunderfoot, if you log in, you will see icons above posts. You alone, or the moderator can go to the icon that looks like a sheet of paper with a pencil. If you click on that icon you may edit your posts. If you want to delete the duplicate posts, just click on that icon with the garbagge can and delete the post. Just experience on my part to learn this stuff.

So good luck with your meeting. I'm not on island or I would attend.

My questions would be,
1. How does one estimate the elevation of the flight over ones property, if it is within standard regulation height.

2. Why can't the tour flight go over the burned out park areas, lava flows and ocean and not neighborhoods?



mella l

[Kahunascott]

I also think that the flights are good for the economy on the whole.
They produce jobs and revenue for this side of the island.
Also they reduce the number of visitors to the park which will limit damage to the fragile plant and animal life.
Thunderfoot you must remember where you live. This is a once in a life time chance for most visitors to see anything like this. And, the volcano was here a lot longer then you were.

[jm minica]

We also get non stop flights over our property in Hawaiian Acres all day. Most of them dont bother me much, but all too many fly very low, which I know is illegal. I'm just not sure why the pilots, who I assume are Big Island residents, dont have more respect for the people living below. It is however a big money tourist industry, so I dont see it going away. But hopefully we can come up with a way to make it less intrusive to those of us who live below their flight path.
Aloha,
Mark

[Kelena]

I support your efforts to get involved in the community. That's great. I am off-island and I have no experience with helicopters in Puna. I imagine they go straight from the airport to the Volcano, which would take them over certain areas.

As Lee mentions above, the Volcano is a major tourist attraction, and there is only one way to see. I tried to book to take a flight two trips ago, but there was no seat available. People love it.

I certainly understand how horses could be spooked by a helicopter.

I would recommend you go to the meeting armed with a thorough understanding of any legal restrictions on such flights. You can certainly ask that they conform to the law.

You might also consider joining forces with other groups that focus on this. Helicopter flights have been a subject of great concern in Kaua'i, which has seen a number of crashes (we appear to have better machines and pilots....or luck.)

Beyond that, this may be a difficult cause.

Those who want to preserve peace and tranquility in the environment should be applauded. The Sierra Club has preserved vast tracts of beautiful land in a state of nature, which includes preserving the sounds of nature. Its members are not sheep. Just the opposite. Sheep do what their masters tell them. The Sierra Club is fighting the herd mentality, which would destroy all of nature, if we let it.

I don't think these helicopters are detroying nature though. They are annoying some people on the ground.

There will need to be balance so that people can come and be awe-inspired by one of the most spectacular sights in the world. Many of those who do will return home an ecologist.

[loffelkopffl]

i'll be at the meeting, the helicopter overflights are horrible, one after another when the weather permits. the noise pollution from them is so badd that at times it drowns out the tv/phone. i didn't buy property 20 miles from the airport so that a few people making money could destroy our peace and quiet. i allways get a kick out of people slamming the sierra club or the alcu or the people who bow down to the allmighty $$. we have to keep trying until we succeed, the only reason they fly over ours houses is to save a few dollars for the owners, obviously they could fly out over the ocean. the fixed wing aircraft are no problem, one can hardly hear them.

[Thunderfoot]

This issue is larger than meets the eye.To quickly answer the,how to determine altitude,-I do it by the maximum height possible fot ohia trees in my area is 30-40 feet,and by the height of my roof and how CLOSE they are.If you have photos,there are mathematical equations to solve the issue.Heights is just one issue.There is also a Nelson corridor set up for air tour traffic,but I am a mile away and they are over me.What is up with that?No honor among the pilots to do the right thing on their own.
Next,let me address some other topics going on here:Wildlife is affected by these overflights.I have personally seen a hawaiian hawk stop its hunting patterns and leave when an aircraft flew over.The altitude is not just the problem.There are issues of noise,private property rights,privacy rights,safety, trespassing, the preservation of our National Parks laws,and much more.Also,statistically more park goers are in a car or on foot than in air tours.The National Park law and the National Park Service Act are relevant here.Also,park goers and others complain about the quiet and enjoymant of parks.Our National Parks are a National treasure meant to preserve our natural resources and to provide the public with have a natural environmental experience.That is all in the law.So,helicopters are not natural!What is so hard about that?How can we as citizens,allow ourselves to think that flying in a helicopter for a pretty view outweighs all these rights and entrustments,and more !!! Also, there is a veternairian who testified in court to many injuries to livestock due to these overflights.Just because you may have not experienced it does not mean it doesn't happen.Are these flights worth 15 deaths per year?And the lives of innocent livestock worth it too?I have persoanlly alomost been run over and have had injuiries to my livestock already. Our rights and other issues, can not be waived by economics via a commercial for-profit enterprises.I would be ashamed of myself if I was just going to sit back and do nothing.So,I am walking my talk.Thank you all for the gift of your time and the arena to express these passions.I am honored and look forward to many more passionate conversations.Have a great day!!!!!!!!

[wjbillock]

quote:

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i didn't buy property 20 miles from the airport so that a few people making money could destroy our peace and quiet.

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No...you bought property close to one of the Big Island's most amazing tourist attractions.

I'm with Scott on this...

Air tours...

quote:

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reduce the number of visitors to the park which will limit damage to the fragile plant and animal life.
Thunderfoot you must remember where you live. This is a once in a life time chance for most visitors to see anything like this. And, the volcano was here a lot longer then you were.

---

As for my opinion of the Sierra Club. We're all entitled to our thoughts and should be thankful for the freedom to express them.

God Bless America!

"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman

Edited by - wjbillock on 09/30/2007 10:11:37

[Thunderfoot]

It appears that some people think that deaths,and other previously mentioned issues,are worth a "pretty view".The number of over flights with only two maintenance crews is a concern.There were 15 deaths in last two years,just this topic alone is powerful.I would not risk my life or my son's life to have a "pretty view".At least when my car breaks down,I am on the ground.Citizens have the right to know all the information,this isn't a carnival ride!!!I wonder how many of those deaths, for a "pretty view",were kids? No matter the statitics every person who gets in an aircraft is gambling with their life.Everyone should have the knowledge of that reality,so if they ponder such an activity,they know what they risk.Like smoking cigerettes has a warning Label.Anyway,to those who feel they want to gain from these activities of over flight operations,and to those who wish to risk their lives for a "pretty view",consider these words.

parting thought:
Humans never cease to amaze me !!!!!!!!

[Carey]

All I know is that there was no air traffic over our area (downtown Keaau) when the Indiana Jones movie was filming at Shipmans.....they seemed to be able to go some where else, or not fly, so they would not bother the filming..... But they came back right after....Did they cancel flights? Take longer routes that cost more? (if that was so, did the tour companies get re-imbursed & by whom?)
Now I have a question...What/Where is the Nelson Corrider? (I googled & couldn't find)
It would be neat to see where we are.
The HPD does have guidelines that restrict altitude for their operation to 1000 ft above ANY housing, inc. rural, UNLESS they are in an air corridor w/ active tour traffice OR there is probable cause for illegal growing. Under those 2 exceptions they are allowed to go to a 500 foot minimum.
http://www.hawaiipolice.com/pdfDocs/MJEr...nRules.pdf
So it seems anything lower that that, over residences, is a definate no-no.
As I was typing this, two copters went over, house pulsed, neighbors dogs howled & could easily see the FAA #'s, kinda think they were a little low & these were not HPD, they were Blue Hawaii (great that their birds are so easy to spot)...This is in a down town area...
I do know that the Helicopters have good points for our counties tourism & all, but they can (and have) adjusted their flight plans to reduce noise in an area, and they are often flying low....probably much lower than they should be.
Perhaps this meeting will be good for all of us, to know where the birds can go, and to know what to do if they are not where they are supposed to be (both altitudinally & corridor wise). (I have to think these regualtions on where they are supposed to be had something to do with safety & such...)




Edited by - carey on 09/30/2007 13:51:52

[Jean H]

Aloha everyone,
I would love to put my 2 cents into this discussion.
My land is close to Thunderfoot, but I do not live there yet. The reason I selected this area was for the peace and quiet and I would not like helicopters buzzing my place either.

There is plenty of National forest, so there doesn't seem to me to be a problem of either flying over ocean, lava or at a higher altitude over developments. If you are not bothered by the tour helicopters because of their altitude then you have no problem where you live, but apparently it is different according to where you live on the island. Maybe there is more flights because of the change of lava flow. Don't know...

Quote
"My gut is telling me that you either have your own hidden agenda or that you are a sheep, following the SIERRA CLUB flock. In either case, I won't support you."

Wow, maybe I am missing something here since I am a fairly new member. I didn't see any aloha there.
I think that statement was judgemental and rude and my gut is telling me that someone else follows a flock... of closed-minded people...my gut also tells me maybe of the same flock that voted our president in office and still defends him.

Maybe the Sierra Club has made some mistakes, don't know...but it seems like they are trying to help the world, even the conservatives!

I have received literature from them and am thinking of joining.
What is so wrong with them?

Can anyone fill me in with the truth?

Mahalo

Jean Hopper