Posts: 248
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2007
quote:
Aloha everyone,
I would love to put my 2 cents into this discussion.
My land is close to Thunderfoot, but I do not live there yet. The reason I selected this area was for the peace and quiet and I would not like helicopters buzzing my place either.
There is plenty of National forest, so there doesn't seem to me to be a problem of either flying over ocean, lava or at a higher altitude over developments. If you are not bothered by the tour helicopters because of their altitude then you have no problem where you live, but apparently it is different according to where you live on the island. Maybe there is more flights because of the change of lava flow. Don't know...
Quote
"My gut is telling me that you either have your own hidden agenda or that you are a sheep, following the SIERRA CLUB flock. In either case, I won't support you."
Wow, maybe I am missing something here since I am a fairly new member. I didn't see any aloha there.
I think that statement was judgemental and rude and my gut is telling me that someone else follows a flock... of closed-minded people...my gut also tells me maybe of the same flock that voted our president in office and still defends him.
Maybe the Sierra Club has made some mistakes, don't know...but it seems like they are trying to help the world, even the conservatives!
I have received literature from them and am thinking of joining.
What is so wrong with them?
Can anyone fill me in with the truth?
Mahalo
Jean Hopper
reply : the person that wrote that distasteful ditribe works for one of the air tour company,and/or has an interest that is financially motivated.It is okay,people can see for themselves what is going on.as for the truth,well one must be wise enough to know it when you here it.That is an old saying that utilize in my thought processes.have a great day,and there is still aloha....ALOHA
Posts: 248
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2007
opps,sorry about the misspellings in my last reply,it has ben a long day.But I also wanted to add that there is nothing wrong with the Sierra Club.They are nationwide and very credible.Again that comment was made by someone who prospers from the air tour industry.ALOHA
Posts: 773
Threads: 83
Joined: Dec 2005
Tony I feel your pain and Sundays for me is at least a half day of rest.
But, on Sundays there is always one cruise ship in and sometimes two.
If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it cost when it’s free...now here come the taxes.....
Posts: 195
Threads: 17
Joined: Aug 2007
Aloha Jean –
Who’s being judgmental and rude here? How dare you pin a Scarlet “R” on me! You do not know me. I do not support Mr. Bush and have not voted for him in the last two elections. I don’t believe in party lines, nor do I believe in the Electoral Collage. But that is another topic for another day.
What I do believe in is free thinking and taking responsibility for one’s own actions.
I believe that if people have an issue…then they should go after the issue and not hide behind the banner of the Sierra Club or any other “Grass Roots” organization for that matter. These organizations all have their own “interests” in mind.
I called Thunderfoot on his hidden agenda and he admitted that there was one. I’m still confused by the fact that almost being killed by his own “spooked” horses wasn’t one of his original concerns. In my opinion, this is a cause worthy enough to get a petition signed; and see if the Tour Operators can change to their routes. And yes, even for those who don’t have horses, it’s still downright loud and annoying and I would also support that petition.
Let’s face facts; we all know that air travel is dangerous. We all know that there is less of a chance to survive in an air crash vs. a car crash. But we still, as Americans, need to be allowed our freedoms. I’m familiar with the ratio of maintenance company/tour operators. I myself have had a tour cancellation due to “maintenance.” They're not perfect but they’re as safe as they can be. But, what I don’t need is some legislative directive to tell me I can’t go up in a helicopter and view the lava flow if I want to.
By the way, I also take issue when people move to a location, knowing full well what their situation will be; and then say NIMBY, and expect us to follow their logic and agree with them.
Have a great week!
PS.
No Thunderfoot, I don’t prosper from the Air Tour Industry, I prosper from the truth…and it seems to work just fine for me!
"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman
Edited by - wjbillock on 09/30/2007 19:24:28
"Vote with your money!"
Posts: 109
Threads: 13
Joined: Jul 2007
While reading all of this I had some thoughts. One is that I live on the mainland underneath a flight path of a local (regional not commercial) airport. Corporate jets are what comes and goes. Since this is the case, it can occur at anytime of the day or night. It sucks and it pisses me off. I have been here for over 4 years-and still hear nearly every one.
There are some kind of rules involved (I am in a high dollar area with people that care A LOT about their property values.) but I don't know what they are; although I am sure they are enforced.
So, this is different as this is the city. No major wildlife are being affected, just humans and property.
OK, here is my 2 cents:
1. I am in total agreement that this is an unnecessary burden on all forms of life.
2. What I propose is that the helicopter companies should try to purchase some of the land covered in lava that is usable (the stuff that is very close yet is accessable by vehicle) and is close to the area that everyone want to see. It would cost almost nothing as far as fuel being used, as they would be flying directly over the area they would be parked at. [so in other words, make a makeshift helicopter airport on the lava]
Saves fuel, saves neighborhoods.
As far as those animals, birds, etc. they would still be screwed. Also, they are dumping pollution on the park. So, those are other issues that I couldn't "on the fly" figure out.
Perhaps it is a situation where no compromise can be made. I dunno. If it is true that the government got involved over the Grand Canyon flights-no reason why they couldn't also as Volcano Park is a national park. Maybe that is the answer.
Thanks for allowing my ramblings.
Posts: 248
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2007
quote:
Aloha Jean –
Who’s being judgmental and rude here? How dare you pin a Scarlet “R” on me! You do not know me. I do not support Mr. Bush and have not voted for him in the last two elections. I don’t believe in party lines, nor do I believe in the Electoral Collage. But that is another topic for another day.
What I do believe in is free thinking and taking responsibility for one’s own actions.
I believe that if people have an issue…then they should go after the issue and not hide behind the banner of the Sierra Club or any other “Grass Roots” organization for that matter. These organizations all have their own “interests” in mind.
I called Thunderfoot on his hidden agenda and he admitted that there was one. I’m still confused by the fact that almost being killed by his own “spooked” horses wasn’t one of his original concerns. In my opinion, this is a cause worthy enough to get a petition signed; and see if the Tour Operators can change to their routes. And yes, even for those who don’t have horses, it’s still downright loud and annoying and I would also support that petition.
Let’s face facts; we all know that air travel is dangerous. We all know that there is less of a chance to survive in an air crash vs. a car crash. But we still, as Americans, need to be allowed our freedoms. I’m familiar with the ratio of maintenance company/tour operators. I myself have had a tour cancellation due to “maintenance.” They're not perfect but they’re as safe as they can be. But, what I don’t need is some legislative directive to tell me I can’t go up in a helicopter and view the lava flow if I want to.
By the way, I also take issue when people move to a location, knowing full well what their situation will be; and then say NIMBY, and expect us to follow their logic and agree with them.
Have a great week!
PS.
No Thunderfoot, I don’t prosper from the Air Tour Industry, I prosper from the truth…and it seems to work just fine for me!
"What? Me Worry?" - Alfred E. Nueman
Edited by - wjbillock on 09/30/2007 19:24:28
reply:
Everyone calm down.You are getting mixed up with Lee.It seems people are lumping the Sierra club comment with the hidden agenda comment.Although it is interesting that you are overly sensitive to this issue.
As for not first speaking about the horses ,as an issue first,was a choice to focus on the issue not the individual problem of mine.Believe it or not there are still people out there that are altruisitc.I have over twenty years non-profit experience.I enjoy charity work,so does 85% of America.
You want to degrade this issue by clouding it with your own persoanl desire and issues.I have been in hawaii since 1980 and seen many things.But you started this whole dialogue with the vicious,inflammatory self-serving,bias,careless,rude assumption that i had a hidden agenda.What is the fascination with that anyway?.You have attacked my honor without provocation.As far as my comment to your hidden agenda accusation,my initial response was sarcastic.Also,by the way,I am a WOMAN.And as far as hiding behind the Sierra Club,I guess you have forgotten there is strength in numbers.Where there is a will,there is a way.Why is everything so negative with you? you are so skeptical and suspicious of others,it causes one to wonder about your hidden agenda.Can't people just speak their mind without everyone getting personal.
On this issue of overflights,I try to be clinical and legal.I try to leave my personal and emotional stuff out of it.I guess it is from living with an attorney for so long.Why didn't you just ask me questions instead of attacking me right off?
I admire your passion and respect your views,but I don't have to agree.That is the beauty of free will.PLEASE EVERYONE WE ARE ALL FAMILY !!!!!!!!!! Let's come together and show ALOHA
Posts: 166
Threads: 25
Joined: Sep 2006
"Thunderfoot",
You remind me of a certain demeaning Planning Commission member that obviously has their own agenda.
How is wjbillock "suspicious and skeptical" of others , but you yourself then falsely accuse wjbillock of being involved with the air tour companies ? Where is your Aloha ?
Greg Henderson
Posts: 248
Threads: 9
Joined: Apr 2007
quote:
"Thunderfoot",
You remind me of a certain demeaning Planning Commission member that obviously has their own agenda.
How is wjbillock "suspicious and skeptical" of others , but you yourself then falsely accuse wjbillock of being involved with the air tour companies ? Where is your Aloha ?
Greg Henderson
reply:
I admit to confusing him with lee.I am not the only one ,Jean also confused the two.No one is perfect and we all make mistakes,butI was attacked without provocation though.And now I am being attacked again because I am defending myself.My aloha is the fact that I am continuing to address things that seem emotional,childish,and presumptive.it takes away from the topic and others that want to enjoy reading without the negativity.I can assure you I have no political aspirations if that is what you are implying.Again,I have nothing to hide,so if you feel the need to attack me further as well,then again I will show you my aloha with a dignified and classy response,to the best of my ability.Also,I noticed none of your comments were positive.How can we all stop this direction.We are all people,connected,but different from one another.No one will agree on everything.I simply want to share myself,thoughts,passions etc... with all of you.I have been in Hawaii for 27 years and operate another charity in the day time.if you guys want to know stuff,just ask me.
Posts: 8,472
Threads: 1,033
Joined: May 2003
Whoa Nelly, I hadn't been monitoring this topic and it seems to have run out of control. Allow me to do my monitor job now.
Now hear this:
This topic was launched by Thunderfoot and is Thunderfoot's topic. It is bad nettiquette to hihjack someone's topic and bend it to your own purpopse and that is what happened with the 3rd posting by wjbillock.
Member wjbillock's comments were rude and uncalled for and led to this relevant subject being hijacked.
Some of you need to grow up. I believe you know who you are. If you don't know who you are and this continues I will remind you.
I will contact Thunderfoot and we may relaunch this topic back at square two. Square two is Lee G's post which politely and respectfully offered a different point point of view.
Punaweb moderator
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
Posts: 2,189
Threads: 295
Joined: Sep 2004
I have known Thunderfoot for several years. I findher to be bright, aware and reasonable. She educated me to the fact that there is indeed an air corridor that appears to be being ignored. There are currently regulations to altitude that are regularly ignored by the tour companies.THESE ITEMS NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. The laws/regulations already exist. We need to see how they can be enforced.
This discussion has gotten way off track. Let's get away from hidden agendas, accusations of a personal nature, etc... Thunderfoot has made a a legitimate invitation to participate in a grass roots movement over an issue that affects many of us. If you don't want to attend the meeting or sign the petition, than don't. However, none of us should even consider restricting the rights of others to have an opinion, express it reasonably, take action and invite fellow Punatics to become active in local issues.
Rob has been very generous in suopporting all our continuing community activity. Much of it is simply fum and social, but serious issues deserve our attention and if not our action, at LEAST our respect.
OKAY, down off the soap box Pam...
Aloha and Mahalo for listening/reading,
Pam
Just another day in P A R A D I S E !!
I want to be the kind of woman that, when my feet
hit the floor each morning, the devil says
"Oh Crap, She's up!"
|
