Meeting and Petition for Pesky Helicopters

[DanielP]

The thing that is so frustrating about the helicopters is that it seems that they have other and better options as to their routes. Why do they choose to fly directly over residential areas instead of a few hundred yards off the coastline? Seems like a shoreline flight would be much more enjoyable than endless Ohia forest and homes.

As far as how high they are flying, they seem to come into view as low as 3-400 feet above the treetops or lower, figuring that the Ohias are about 60 feet high.

Can I measure how much my windows shake or count the time that I have to suspend a conversation to let them pass?

Has anyone from CAOA ever sat down with any of the tour companies to discuss the issues?


I just got my first model rocket. It flies to about 150 feet. Need to get a little bigger motor.

Personal property rights is a cornerstone of the founding of this country. They need to be reclaimed and preserved. There is a blatant and arrogant lack of respect by the helicopter companies and pilots... Shameful

Dan

[jdirgo]

A couple of thoughts about why they probably don't take a shoreline route:
1) distance and therefore cost
2) they'd have to pass right by Kehena Beach and they often have children in them. Nude beach + children = not a popular idea.

Also, aren't the air currents totally different over water versus land, especially at relatively low (1,500 feet or so) altitudes?

John Dirgo, R, ABR, e-PRO
Aloha Coast Realty, LLC
808-987-9243 cell
http://www.hawaiirealproperty.com

[DanielP]

At 1500 feet there wouldn't be much to see at Kehena and at 1500 feet there would be alot less complaining. I don't think that at 1500 feet they would be rattling my windows. I will have to take an anonymous ride and keep an eye on the altimeter.

I still say that this is a matter of disrespect and displays a shameful attitude by the helicopter jockeys.

[mgeary]

I took a helicopter flight in July, it was one of the highlights of our vacation. The view of the volcano, in fact all of Hilo town, Kea'au, and the lava fields was simply spectacular. There really is no other way to get that kind of view, short of perhaps a hot air balloon.

The FAA restricts all flights in unrestricted airspace to 1000' AGL (above ground level). On my flight this summer, there was no time at which we were less than about 1000 feet, I kept an eye on the gauges. In fact most of the flight to and from the volcano was around 2500' AGL.

And no, I have no connection to helicopter tours, aviation, or the airport. I am just a California tourist who hopes to be a Puna resident in about two years.

Edited by - mgeary on 10/27/2007 13:09:56

[Thunderfoot]

Thank all of for responding,and I recommend that people commenting should read the entire thread.It is worth it.A lot of this ground has been covered.
Kathy,I appreciate your input,and you are correct about volcanic ash.There have been aircraft affected by volcanic gas , as well as ash,and it is something to do with the intake oxygen mixture in the gas for the engines to operate at optimum.Also,I previously mentioned aircraft engine trouble in this thread with an article link to that 1992 incident you are talking about.But engine trouble has occured up to 600 miles away from an active vent,from volcanic ash clouds.As far as the vog,the angle I was aiming at there is the long term exposure to sulphuric acid.That will shorten the life of the engine,and there are only two maintenanace companies for these 12 chopper companies.It is an interetsing parameter of this discussion.

Also to Megary,just one flight does not mean that the unbearable flight activity isn't occuring.Also, there are injuries to people, livestock,wildlife; and deaths and more involved in this issue.Like trespassing,privacy,sacred sites.Please read the thread again,you are advocating the pretty view syndrome over everyone'else's rights to enjoy their homes,as well as previoulsy mentioned issues.


To Daniel,the University of Hawaii told me Ohia grows max to 70',only in Laupahoehoe area,where soil is deep.Otherwise 50'max.and that is pushing it in most areas.And talking to the air tour companies is a joke,as I have stated prior on this thread.They laugh!!!Altitude becomes a mute point when pilots know there is no way to enforce altitiude compliance,unless you submit a video to FAA within two days of incident; an unreasonable request.It is difficult to get the FAA to do anything.Even Akaka stated they have failed to finalize even one of 107 plans since 2000!!!!!

Please keep those comments coming,and hope to see you all out at Makuu market tomarrow.

[Rob Tucker]

One way to possibly get the attention and the cooperation
of the air tour industry to you complaint.

Create a web site covering all the risks and hazards of air touring in Hawaii. Link it in on the search engines for vv olcano air tours Pictures of crashed helicopters on the internet are not good for business. See if the air tour companies might want to see your site gone in exchange for some concessions on privacy.

Just an idea. Compete with thier marketing message,

[mgeary]

quote:

---

...Also to Megary,just one flight does not mean that the unbearable flight activity isn't occuring.Also, there are injuries to people, livestock,wildlife; and deaths and more involved in this issue.Like trespassing,privacy,sacred sites.Please read the thread again,you are advocating the pretty view syndrome over everyone'else's rights to enjoy their homes,as well as previoulsy mentioned issues...

---

You are correct, Thunderfoot, I hadn't read the whole 11 pages before I responded. I read the first 3, and the last page. I re-read the remainder after I posted.

In your response, you pit "pretty view syndrome" against "rights to enjoy their homes". I'd phrase it as my right to federally controlled airspace against your NIMBY syndrome. Depending on how you cast the terms, it is perjorative one way or another. What if we met in the middle to discuss our competing rights?

We all have a right to use Hawaiian airspace, subject to control by the FAA, the regulating body with jurisdiction, in the same way we all have a right to use the airwaves subject to FCC regulation, or the federal highways subject to regulation by DOT, ICC, and other safety authorities.

If you don't like the regulations, or the regulators, change the system, which is the purpose of this thread. I'm just participating with a view opposed to yours, although I agree with penalizing violators to the FAA regulations, as well as finding compromises to meet your needs, such as travel corridors similar to MOA's.

Good luck with your quest, Thunderfoot. I appreciate your concerns, I just want to make sure that there is aerial access in some form to such a remarkable and unique visual experience as Kilauea.

How do I know?

[mella l]

quote:

---

One way to possibly get the attention and the cooperation
of the air tour industry to you complaint.

Create a web site covering all the risks and hazards of air touring in Hawaii. Link it in on the search engines for vv olcano air tours Pictures of crashed helicopters on the internet are not good for business. See if the air tour companies might want to see your site gone in exchange for some concessions on privacy.

Just an idea. Compete with thier marketing message,

---

Rob I like the way you think. This is an excellent idea!

Unfortunately all this problem solving wouldn't be a necessity if the regulations were followed and detection and enforcement weren't so challenging.

mella l

[Thunderfoot]

Thank you mgeary,We are not out to stop aircraft flights,just those over parks,zoos,schools,sacred sites and agricultural lands in Puna and Volacno.Also,helicopters are not natural and therefore are in non-compliance with he National Park Law and National Park Service Act,and the Organic Act of 1916.This country set it up to protect our National treasurers and resources for future generations.This is why we are out to educate people.I have studied this for years.That is why I really do appreciate all comments.Also,there are old laws still on the books that private property owners own from down to the core and up into infinity.Technically,the US gov.owns the airspace for our National security.Did you know you can get on those air tour flights with no security what so ever!!! Pearl harbor happened here when people thought it never would.Also,again,there are only two air maintenance companies for 12 air tour companies in a very corrosive environment.Deaths do occur,and there is an average crash rate of one a month!!!!!We do not want this over our schools and stuff!!!
And yes I would love for there to be a happy medium,however,the air tour companies are not cooperative and fail to monitor themselves to be in compliance with existing rules!!!! Akaka can't even get the FAA to explain why they have failed to finalize even one of 107 plans;and he is in Congress.By the way Congress created the FAA.So,it is up to us citizens to exercise our constituitonal rights to privacy,safety,serenity etc,as well as all the other many angles mentioned in this entire thread.No industry can waive the rights of citizens,and PROFIT by it for a pretty view!!!!!!!!Let us not forget that they also video and sale it to their clients as a souvenir.I do not want to end up on utube fixing my fence,for example.Anyone that has experienced tyranny in this issue would not even hesitate to agree.As far as being a NIMBY,well it seems this word is thrown out by frustrated mainlanders(it isn't a local term for sure)as a resort to namecalling.Well,since nimby means" not in my backyard".And the whole world is the backyard to us all.We do not own our Mother Earth,she owns us!!!!I guess that makes me a NIMBY ,I will take it as a compliment.

Also, we have had an incredible response and tremendous thanks from hundreds of people already.

Also,thanks Mella1
And thank you Rob,I will check into a website as soon as I can.That is a great idea,keep em coming...........

Also<THANKS TO EVERYONE OUT AT MAKUU MARKET TODAY!!!!!! > 156 signatures in one day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edited by - thunderfoot on 10/28/2007 15:39:42

[Thunderfoot]

Okay website up and running.It is a very simple start
http://www.freewebs.com/caoahawaii/