Meeting and Petition for Pesky Helicopters

[missydog1]

I have a petition for both of you.

Put in frequent paragraph breaks. It's too hard to read humongous blocks of text online without white space ... thanks in advance because I'm interested in reading what you have to say.

I don't think the air tours out of Hilo increase the VNP usage. Most visitors who come to stay Kona side will make at least one trip to VNP. but if they choose a helo tour they may substitute that. Cruise ship visitors have time to do an air tour or see the park, not necessarily both.

If there were no air tours, the tourists would spend the same vacation budget money on something else, whether a boat tour or more dinners, or shopping. The money will still come to the island.

Personally, and this is really a just my opinion thing, I think tourist obsession with seeing red lava is just more of the problem today of people requiring dramatic sights and adrenaline rushes to enjoy nature. Instead of a Disneyland approach, better for people to walk the ground, feel the earth, view the craters, learn something about geology. Buy some fireworks for a rush ... let Pele send her lava on its way without all the ogling.

The whole "once in a lifetime thrill" orientation towards travel does little to develop people's hearts and minds, really. It's a rush, and then they move on to the next rush. Better they take some time to find out about the real Hawai`i instead of going on an E ticket ride.
JMHO

[Rob Tucker]

Yeah, I don't much bother to read run on paragraphs......

There is an edit icon and any post can be reshaped to be reader friendly.

[gtill]

My main point to all this was "civil rights" pertain to race religion, national origin, color(?), DISABILITY and AGE. Driven by EEO and applying to conditions that a person can in no way change.

While I was a young GI, I complained to a black sgt. "my" civil rights were being violated because I had to butcher my hair. I got it upside the head that I can cut my hair and by contract have to. If you don't like it, get out (which I did). But he couldn't change his color, he had been with Rosa Parks, I'd been in hs in LA, big difference there. I think you are going to experience two of the newest additions to EEO, AARP and ADA!

Kathy and Rob, thank you so much for your critique, I agree, it makes it hard for me to. Rob, I thought i had it down with your last post to me. Tried numerous ways, notice the periods that was an attempt, looked good until posted. But Kathys wide spaces gave a hint. No grandkids around. But i think i got it, thanks again! How's them apples, a new lease on posting.

TF, if your park ban works, and doesn't ban all flights, where where will they fly, the 1500' would apply to a clinic, retirement home home, school etc. 1000' normal housing, and probably 500' for ag.. Sorry, but they use choppers to roundup in the not so wild west, animals adjust, my wife rode a country hores in many a Pa'u parade in waikiki, Sirens, bands you name it no problem. Field animals adjust quick.

FFVE is ag, Did you know FFVE used to be Puu'o ranch, but was not able to complete with parker, can't imagine why! So they made it into an ag subdivision. As a sight unseen buyer i was assured it had beautiful trees and good soil (but not how much soil). Escrow had cleared, but we did our best and will never regret the experience love the place till today, coming back!

Thunderfoot, to space paragraphs hold the space key till the second line, for unknown reasons that seperates the paragraphs. Rob had told me this before, i thought i had it, but kathy let me know i didn't, Shame forced me to try again, spacebar down 2 lines, at least on my set! TF, confirmed, 2nd line with spacebar is key, at least on my set a 200$ msntv with dsl(phone) and 32" tv.

Be back for editing the previous jumble. Thanks again, Alohaaaaaaaaaaaa! peace



Moderator: Use the Return Key at the end of paragraphs.

[Thunderfoot]

Thanks all of you.

I really enjoyed reading this thread today.
Plus,I love good deep conversation,with the ability to laugh in between.

Thanks to all of you for making my day,talk to you all soon.

[missydog1]

gtill, thanks for taking the critique well, because your last post is now reader-friendly!
I don't play any tricks with the space bar. I hit return twice to leave a blank line.

[Thunderfoot]

Latest update:
I talked to the National Park Service today.They have been receiving many,many complaints about the overflights in the Park from individuals,park goers,groups and Hawaiians.They actually need our help to preserve the National Park's airspace.The FAA has complete control.It is the FAA issuing the permits for the commercial venture in our National Park.National Parks are National Treasures,and exist to preserve wildlife and their habitats,resources, and for the enjoyment of the park experience now;and for future generations. Everything keeps coming back to those guys,the FAA,and we all know how they are.........

What is so wild,is that commercial air tours are the only intruisive,for profit private enterprise that makes money off of our Parks!This is outrageous! The Park never sees any of the money from these operations.Something is terribly wrong with the FAA,and someone needs to be accountable for letting it get this way;which violates the entire purpose and mission of having National Parks in the first place.
So,the Park Service would like to see these commercial air tours stop at Volcano;and out of their mouth,Haleakala.Again the FAA has alot of explaining to do.There needs to be some sort of repremand for this seemingly impune FAA.

Also,I haven't heard from Darl about the upcoming meeting he suggested.I have emailed him several times.I hope he gets his messages soon,because Jan 28 isn't that far away.

This is just one aspect of this thread,hope you visit our website:
http://www.freewebs.com/caoahawaii/

[gtill]

Have watched many puueo since i found they were native.
They like pasture and more open and dry areas.
Wind mill farms are harder on them, in the middle of their territory.
If the park is into closing it off i'll back off. However you're not going to shut the whole discrict down, I'm not on the edge of the forest reserve, so it should improve for me. But flying over rural ag land is not illegal and now a trip to as close as can will be big. Plus in and out where they want.
I also maintain that a ban is for everyone and not every politition, sierra club official college prof, dignitaries etc. no one! Only flights should be contracted by the park and directly paid for by the park. They too shoud experience the joy of walking the great outdoors. Talk about a great opportunity for graft, a banned to the rest of us
resoursce, a gold mine for campain funds, a new mercedes? All official flights documented with a public viewed passenger list!

[Punarebel]

I don't get you gtill.Your writings are hard to read and understand,and I swear I am not stupid,lol.

Just to get it straight,now you agree with the air tour ban over the park , because the Park Service agrees with the CAOA?

But the rest of the stuff is a bit confusing.

Well,anyway,Thunderfoot,I enjoyed reading your thread.You seem to be very informed about the situation.Keep up the good work.

[oink]

This idea doesn't appear to be feasable due to the FAA having all regulative authority, but IMHO the perfect solution: The HVNP sets it up as a concession in which they sell the concession rights to a vendor. This concession agreement stipulates the number of flights and the cost to the passengers. The number of flights is set by HVNP and the cost per patron is negotiated and then set in contract for the duration of the concession contract. Otherwise, just reducing the number of flights would result in a steep price increase(supply and demand) for the patrons, with the result being that it would only be for the wealthy. This way you get reduced flights but it remains a method of park access for "The People". The added benefit is that the park gets it's concession fees out of the arrangement.

Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.

[gtill]

Pohaku, my desire is to remove all flights bound for the park, (assuming the park is for it) going over the subdivsions. By FAA reg. forcing a manditory pattern of flight path requires a special reason, mostly safety and prescident. Numerous crashes in open airspace by one class of craft, all of which could appy here.

The concession idea is excellent, gives those who can't otherwise see it an oppertunity and gives the park an income source. Eliminate the EEO access challenge, and would be a good tool for the scientific acess.

However i can't see getting both. Protect the park, or the subdiv's. We will get less flights overall as the draw inside the park will be be gone, but the edges will still be the best possible viewing without going in.
The livestock issue refers to the fact that choppers are routinely used in roundups on remote ranches, and choppers are common equipment on a lot of them,I worked by them. My point is there is a prescident and any point that can be refuted probably will hurt your cause.
Hope all goes well!