Understanding Kau Inoa

[Jon]

Well, Noah was 950 years old too...

My understanding of Hawaiian history is that the King ownd everything and allowed people to use his stuff. So money was not needed.

You may think a huge change is needed, but the direction you seem to be hinting at would cause people my age to die, and I don't think I am going to help you with that.

I may know more about grubbing than you think, growing food in the 21 century is pretty easy, do away with all the technology and it becomes difficult to feed 300 million people, much less the millions of others we(USA) feed every day.

I realize what the history books might say, yes, but millions of people live in areas that did not use any kind of money, but it was not as good a life as we have now. (at least that is what most people would say)

Look at that thing in front of you... why was it not invented 2000 years ago? or 200 years ago? Mainly because the guys that invented it did not have to work in the fields all day or hunt for tonight's dinner. Without some form of exchange how do these things get invented? If I have a great idea but know that I will have to go hungry to build it plus never get anything other than that warm and fuzzy feeling for building it... why would I bother. But if I know that I can go hungry for a time and build it then sell if for enough to live on long enough to build more things that I can sell to live one while I build more things....

you get the picture? Money is not going away anytime soon

its quaint that you think is such small terms as this one island, and in my everyday life I do also, but in the big picture humans need the freedom to grow and explore. Without the freedom to do so, a people will crumble and die.


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[Greg]

The traditional Hawaiian economic system was anything but "quaint". It was actually a pretty sophisticated system of agriculture, aquaculture, and economics held together by the kapu system (fishing seasons, for one) and the Ahupua'a (land division from mauka to makai).

Like it or not, the ancients supported more people then, and with a stone age technology at that. They simply didn't need a computer.

I believe we could learn from traditional Hawaiian practices.

[rbakker]

I've seen it mentioned a number of times, in this and previous threads, that Hawaii used to have a much larger population. Is there any proof of this? Is that just on the Big Island, surely not over the whole state?

[Jon]

I also believe we can learn from history, everything we know is history...

I missed that part where I posted that the island could not support more people... but if all they do is live a hand to mouth existence, it would "not" be for the better.


Transplanted Texan
"I am here to chew bubble gum and kick some *** ... and I'm all out of bubble gum"

[kani-lehua]

quote:

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Originally posted by Greg

The traditional Hawaiian economic system was anything but "quaint". It was actually a pretty sophisticated system of agriculture, aquaculture, and economics held together by the kapu system (fishing seasons, for one) and the Ahupua'a (land division from mauka to makai).

Like it or not, the ancients supported more people then, and with a stone age technology at that. They simply didn't need a computer.

I believe we could learn from traditional Hawaiian practices.

---

agreed. the link below expands on greg's post:

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onlin...tory1g.htm








"chaos reigns within.
reflect, repent and reboot.
order shall return."

microsoft error message with haiku poetry

[Devany]

Thanks for sharing that site, it is excellent. I really enjoyed reading it and printed it for future reference.

quote:

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Originally posted by kani-lehua

quote:

---

Originally posted by Greg

The traditional Hawaiian economic system was anything but "quaint". It was actually a pretty sophisticated system of agriculture, aquaculture, and economics held together by the kapu system (fishing seasons, for one) and the Ahupua'a (land division from mauka to makai).

Like it or not, the ancients supported more people then, and with a stone age technology at that. They simply didn't need a computer.

I believe we could learn from traditional Hawaiian practices.

---

agreed. the link below expands on greg's post:

http://www.nps.gov/history/history/onlin...tory1g.htm








"chaos reigns within.
reflect, repent and reboot.
order shall return."

microsoft error message with haiku poetry

---

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com

[kani-lehua]

devaney you should read this: "the hawaiian sovereignty movement: roles of and impacts on non-hawaiians" by anthony castanha, august 1996. http://www.hookele.com/non-hawaiians/chapter 7.html. use this link to an interesting read and the full thesis.

should full independence become a reality, all people who reside in hawai'i will be affected. hawaiians and non-hawaiians alike.


"chaos reigns within.
reflect, repent and reboot.
order shall return."

microsoft error message with haiku poetry

[Devany]

Thanks for sharing the link. I am not for full sovernity, or independence, but I do believe that something needs to be done. Don't ask me what, I am not even in Hawaii yet (4 more days). Some correction needs to be made. And just like with the federal economic program, it is going to affect all of us in some way.

Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany

Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com

[kani-lehua]

agreed.

many kanaka maoli feel the same way, don't know what to feel or are indifferent. many don't understand OHA, kau inoa, the akaka bill or the independence movement and the effects those issues will have on us all.

"chaos reigns within.
reflect, repent and reboot.
order shall return."

microsoft error message with haiku poetry

[JWFITZ]

I would suggest that the most immediately available and practical way for Hawaii to realize "real" independence isn't through legislation or attempts to build nation states, but by moving with a deliberate effort towards independent living. By this I mean, by embracing non-materialistic values(obviously cherry picked from a number of traditions--but no matter), real social integrity and community, and becoming perhaps the most progressive community in the world for asserting a model of a global humanity. Now this would be independence, wouldn't it? At that point, whoever the government claimed to be would more or less be irrelevant.

Racism has no place in this future. Once the value in a community is contingent on(gasp!)one's actual value--meaning that one's esteem is based on the contributory good one offers to the community--and this is where we must lead--notions of race become simply nonsensical evasions. And rightly so. Race is an illusion. It doesn't even exist.