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It is much more difficult to enforce a law requiring good judgment in the use of firearms than one enforcing no use of firearms. I could actually be on board with a zero tolerance policy for discharging firearms. The Puna subdivisions are still evolving as to what they really are (ag vs residential).
In this argument however I see some issues that are routinely being misstated or intentionally ignored. It has been stated that there is a noticeable difference between the sound of one shot dedicated to killing a rat and random gunfire. Does someone have a problem with the definition of random? If so they should state it right out. That should be part of their argument, in fact right at the beginning, that a single gunshot should be considered random. That would explain the constant references to random gunshots. Otherwise, to ignore a statement that a single low caliber gunshot without other indicators of trouble is not cause for alarm and to call everything random is kind of like Time magazine intentionally darkening OJ's face on their cover to make him seem sinister.
Don't get me wrong. A premeditated murder probably would involve a single shot. However the kinds of mayhem that usually are committed spur of the moment or by troubled people without a plan probably are a lot messier and would involve more shots. It comes down to probability.
Finally, there are a lot of people who feel fear when they see someone of a different racial or socioeconomic background. Should they be spared this fear? Is it the responsibility of anyone but themselves to deal with this fear? I say no.
I think I could live happily enough without firing a gun on my property. I can see a zero tolerance policy working and that there would be far reaching benefits. I disagree with some of the arguments put forth as being too black and white. I really agree that the law should be totally unambiguous. If that means letting people shoot guns (safely), OK. If it means no shooting guns, OK.
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Rob,
The type of round Lack shot is not loud. A firecracker would be louder, as would a popped paper bag or balloon, a 1X4 dropped onto concrete, nailing a floor plate onto a slab with a cut nail, a .22 nail gun, etc, etc. The sound alone should not have caused alarm as most people wouldn't have recognized it as a shot without a sequence of repetitive shots. IMHO, this was all about a pissed off neighbor who observed Lack's hunting safari and who was missing chickens and knew the cause of the missing chickens. The call to the PD wasn't about fear, it was about revenge and harassment.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Pua`a
S. FL
Big Islander to be.
Posts: 1,581
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Joined: Jun 2007
My point is that nobody but the shooter knew why the shot was fired. Someone heard the shot and we don't know who or why they made the call, but they called in a gun shot to the police. The police responded and determined it was nothing. But instead of saying that at least someone acted (especially with many of the comments about crime and the need for the community to act and report suspicions); instead of understanding that a gunshot can cause someone to call the police, instead of accepting that people call the police if something is suspicious to them that may not be suspicious to others; some are trying to turn the caller into a villain.
Come on folks; if you shoot a gun how hard is it to understand that someone may think it's more serious than it was? What if you drive up to a house and park across the street with a pair of binoculars and was looking at a bird on the roof, would you moan and groan (like some are doing now) if the police showed up and asked you some questions, but did nothing? How about someone going to a house to pick up a sofa in their pickup and drive back and forth a couple times to make sure they had the right address, they pull into the driveway but the gate is locked, they check the gate thinking maybe they need to open it. It's locked so they drive away. Is that an action worthy of not only calling the police but also calling those people criminals that are casing the place? What if it turns out they were lost and had the wrong address? It's reasonable to call the police on any suspicious activity, so why is this rat extermination event so different? Oh yeah, suspicious behavior, events, and actions only apply to the "Other" guy, not us.
I stand by my example that if a single shot occurred that killed a love one and nobody did anything when they heard that single shot based on the reasons given why it’s wrong to call the police on a single solitary sound of gunshot, the victim’s family would be screaming for those peoples head on a platter. That’s just pure human nature.
What if a neighbor saw someone leaving your house with a TV set but did nothing because they didn’t hear any glass breaking or alarm go off? What are the criteria for suspicious activity, because that’s what some are trying to do? Instead of condemning the caller; looking for excuses as to why they shouldn’t be calling; arguing the type of bullet and purpose; one shot or multiple shots; property rights; revengeful neighbors; and everything else - how about the simple concept that to someone in the community it was suspicious and instead of being like so many others who wouldn’t call the police if they heard bloody murder, this person made the call. Let the police make the determination (as they did in this case) if it was or wasn’t a criminal activity, but don’t stifle the callers.
Thank you Oink,
I do believe that you have summed it all up in a rather elementary manor. Someone, in the vicinity is looking for retaliation on this chicken thief [me] and they don’t have the cohunes to come to grips with me directly. Maybe because this person knows that I have guns and that I’m not a push over. I gave everyone fair warning about the chicken’s before I relocated them. I don’t run around the vicinity in a rant dishing out orders about how I want them to subsist. I like my piece and quite too. The single pop of a 22 rat shot projectiles makes no more disturbance than the kids bouncing a basketball in the street. I found this out today because I spotted another fat rat in my mango tree around noon. The neighbor kids were playing in the street bouncing a basketball across from my house when I spotted the varmint.
After this tread I was a little dubious about taking a bead on the rat but, I said to myself, “screw it let them call the police again.” So I squeezed the trigger and despatched another rat to the afterlife. Because the kids were bouncing the basketball in the street I guess that nobody heard the effrontery shattering thunderous noise of my deadly artillery, because the police didn’t come this time and the kids didn’t run and hide in fright, in fact they kept bouncing the ball and shooting hoops. Gee, go figure, maybe the kids have more horse sense than there chicken raising parents.
The Lack
Lack -
Think of this money maker:
Smoked Fish to Japan...
Smoked Rat to India
"Rat meat is selling like hot cakes in certain pockets in southern India...“The meat tastes even better than chicken. The tribals are the only source for it and we are grateful. But, they should understand our love for it and the growing demand here and should go in for large scale hunting of rats,”
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Damon,
What a terrific idea, RATS for sale. Let’s take it a step further and raise them, we could set up a fat rat farm here in Puna and start raising thousands of them in no time. Rats are so amorous that in no time we could have more rats in Puna cages then the entire Hawaiian islands have running around wild. I can see the beauty of this venture, Damon you and I have vision while he rest of the world runs around wearing bifocals. [stole that from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid] After reading that article it seems that the people of India want the rats alive. Easer for us, all we have to do is build cages and then ship. If they will take them dead we could set up a shooting range and charge people to blow them away. Money at ether end, I like it, lets talk.
The Lack
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That is a great idea Damon! [:p] Tom... go for it. I can imagine the fun involved in shipping the rat meat... Damon you could use your clout at the post office [}  ]
I saw a documentary program on this class of people that are the "rat people" in India. They live in huts on the edges of fields and go through the rice fields catching rats by hand (smoking their holes), which you can imagine is no easy task. They get paid a small fee for doing this and live on... you guessed it... rats. They cooked them on a spit and ate them two ways. The men eat them right off of the stick. Then the meat is pulled away from the bone on other rats and that meat is cooked into a curry which the rest of the family has with rice. One man, who was interviewed said he could not eat any other meat after having rat all of his life, that it tasted far better than any chicken or fish he had ever been offered. Another sad thing about this class of people is that the smoke they use to get the rats out of the holes also shortens the human's lives. They rarely lived past 40 years old.
Kind of reminded me of when we were in Fiji, fruit bats (the size of small cats) were a delicacy in the small island village (Yasawa) where we were. There was one tree where they all lived during the day. While they were sleeping a man would throw a rock up there and knock a few bats out of the tree, they were then put on a stick (fur and all) and roasted over a fire and then the meat was shared by passing around the stick. They only did this for special occasions, as they wanted to keep a population of them viable for future generations.
Aloha au i Hawai`i,
devany
Devany Vickery-Davidson
East Bay Potters
www.eastbaypotters.com
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People have a right, clearly, to call police for any reason they see fit. And the police will indeed drop whatever they are doing and come. They have to, and in the case of a "reported" gunshot, even if it exists or not, you can be sure that they will take the necessary steps to avoid their own personal liability.
Is it constructive to call the cops every time you think you hear a gunshot? It's up to you. How about if you think you smell a little puna butter in the bushes? It's up to you. Barking dogs. Trash in the street. Cars with no tags. Motorcycles. Unattended kids. Mean looking people looking at you. . .call the cops. If you think this makes for a more "neighborly" neighborhood--well, you'll find out and the proof is in the pudding. I will suggest it's questionable. My point is that it's probably neighborly to think about it.
I think practicing sensible restraint in all things is pretty advisable. This includes shooting rats, as well as meddling in other peoples lives. It is this restraint that I am arguing for.
I understand some are terrified of guns in a wholly visceral manner. That doesn't make me happy. I'm empathetic to that fear. Their fear isn't the only fear. Some people also fear rats, and shoot them. Some local families traditionally keep pigs in pig traps, and are now afraid to shoot them, as they always have, because someone will call the police and potentially press charges. Personally, if we want to talk about fear, I expect the tsunami of aggressive mainland attitudes and influence scares a whole lot of people. The PCDP scares the hell out of me. Is any of this rational? I guess we will see.
Never do inflexible attitudes work for a better community, this is clear.
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Quote:
"Some local families traditionally keep pigs in pig traps, and are now afraid to shoot them".
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Since automobiles are more dangerous than guns(Jon)I suggest Damon could solve his dilemma by putting his pig in his car and driving around with it.*
* (This is a joke)
As far as the "rat shot" goes, I've never called the police for an unheard gunshot. Believe me, what our neighborhood was experiencing was auto and semi auto weapons being fired in a manner designed to terrorize.
If no one could hear Lackey's gun he may have reported himself to reinforce his legend.*
*(this is also a joke)
[  ]
I'll just weigh in for a second here.
I don't know of any local families afraid of shooting pigs in their traps because the cops might come.
If the cops did come... they would simply tell the cop what they did... and then offer the officer some pig to take home.
Trust me... the police are to busy watching the Post Office to deal with gunshots in peoples neighborhoods!
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