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quote:
Originally posted by Rob Tucker
... HDOT officials and contractor execs and consultants are a kind of revolving door.
Although I can not today put names to situations, I fear the above is at the center of the problem. It is a general observation and understanding that engineers move between employment at HDOT and private contractors on a regular basis. Are the sentiments of HDOT, soon-to-be-private-contractor, engineers concerned with public benefit or their own engineering careers?
There are some serious procurement issues, too. For example, when a signal light is purchased there goes along with that purchase a long-term maintenance contract. A County and State policy of roundabouts at every intersection where appropriate would pose a real financial threat to anyone who sells and maintains signal lights. When signal lights are the only option being considered, that immediately removes incentive for signal light sellers to keep down the cost of their product.
James Weatherford, Ph.D.
15-1888 Hialoa
Hawaiian Paradise Park
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Jon, You are presenting your speculations as facts. Consider the fact that this process has been undertaken elsewhere with success. It may be that our population is more prone to disaster than other populations. It may also be that you are grossly over estimating a perceived problem. it may also be that sensible solutions can produce reasonably good results. It may also be that roundabouts would not be a practical soltuion for Hwy. 130. As long as HDOT engineers refuse to consider the facts it will be an uphill battle to find the answer.
I do have a level of frustration with HDOT engineers and members of the public who are not interested in exploring the facts. Feel free to explore facts. Find me some data that shows that roundabouts, when installed, resulted in increased accidents, injury and death. Everything I have read says the opposite. Otherwise please try to remember that your speculations are merely that, speculations. Which is fine of course.
Assume the best and ask questions.
Punaweb moderator
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How can you ever improve a situation if you reject something new because it's new?
Everything was new at some time.
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As I write this the authorities are cleaning up a major traffic accident at Kahakai and the Highway. My wife said it looked pretty serious. A great example there of a poorly designed intersection; the bent, straight and missing poles can give you vertigo for cryin' out loud! (Am I the only one who thinks an amateur could come up with a better design?)
On the roundabout issue, instead of dealing with opinions it makes more sense to look at traffic data over a several year period dealing with geographic areas totally unfamiliar with roundabouts that suddenly--or gradually--introduced them. What was the total cost to implement, including re-education of the driving public? How long did the learning curve take to get that "99%" comfortable with the rules/merging technique? Did accidents increase temporarily then go down? Did non-fatal accidents increase or decrease? (Immediately or over time?) Another question to ponder: are roundabouts an "all-or-nothing" deal? Why NOT place them in strategic places then roll out development of other intersections gradually, based on need and appropriateness?
No doubt Dr. W or Rob are familiar with the studies and can direct us to credible information sources. Sure wish I had the answers...I'm still working on the questions.
Tim
A superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions--Confucius
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And until the are install in Hawaii, any talk about them is speculation.
I am not rejecting anything, I am pointing out what I see a problems with them.
I do not believe that all these people at HDOT are as dumb as you say they are, nor do I believe that they all would go out of there way to make life miserable for others.
I usually find when I have had to look into decisions that have been made and look strange, there was a reason for them being made. I also have to deal from the other side, when contractors or auditors are brought in a to look at my work, more than once I have had them tell my boss how dumb that (my) decision was, just to have them apologize in their report because they did not understand the circumstances of the decision.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
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Yes that intersection is a mess. I will bet you a Coke (if gabling were legal) that politics has more to do with that intersection than reason or logic.
quote:
Originally posted by punafish
As I write this the authorities are cleaning up a major traffic accident at Kahakai and the Highway. My wife said it looked pretty serious. A great example there of a poorly designed intersection; the bent, straight and missing poles can give you vertigo for cryin' out loud! (Am I the only one who thinks an amateur could come up with a better design?)
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
Posts: 2,149
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Joined: Feb 2006
Jon, nobody is saying the HDOT guys are dummies. They are in my experience, however, set in their outmoded ways and interested in keeping their professional nests feathered. I have been to meetings and talked to these guys, and even politely suggesting that they try something different is like standing up at a Dallas Cowboys fan banquet and calling Tom Landry an incompetent piker. They find the status quo the only thing they can tolerate.
Cheers,
Jerry
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Jerry, As a long time Packer fan, I can tell you that Tom Landry
is an incompetent piker. [
]
Sorry Rob. It won't happen again.
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As a non fan of football... I can tell you that Tom Landry is dead... and I think he is very competent at being so.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
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I do not believe that America is better than everybody else...
America "IS" everybody else.
The Wilder Side Of Hawaii
Posts: 1,168
Threads: 39
Joined: Jun 2005
Greg, just when I started warming up to you I find out you're a PACKER fan? (It doesn't change the fact that the Bears suck :-(
Tim
A superior man is modest in his speech, but exceeds in his actions--Confucius
