Rob Tucker's PMAR Proposal

[Seeb]

now there would be a good use for the 2% fund - Lands for Future Public Use, buy it now before there are houses on it. cheaper in the long run, no court costs and less uprooted and pissed off people.

[Rob Tucker]

Take a look at Honolulu. They put off discussion for decades about the need for light rail. They live in a traffic nightmare. Now they have to do it and it is going to cost $200 million a mile. It is going to be a construction horror story with diverted traffic for years, property owners in turmoil and it will likely cost much, more than they admit.

My proposal is not the only proposal. It does look toward the future and it involves three intersections and zero driveways in HPP. It can also be built, essentially, without years of disruption for HPP residents during construction. That has to matter. It could be narrower. It could be wider. It could raise property values if done right.

James Weatherford's proposal is very different. It involves nine intersections and moving traffic past 750 driveways. It will likely require 750 eminent domain procedures. It will also be a major pain to construct. How do you make miles of road gradings and pavings and maintain people's access to their homes? Very costly. to utilize HPP roads means they have to be acquired and the blind hills graded out. That means driveways will need regrading too or they might be five feet higher than the road. But I respect James' intentions and effort. We just think differently.

It is good to have competing proposals and to debate them. HPP plays a big part in the traffic problem and will have to play it's part in the solution. Michael, who initiated this discussion, might prefer one or another method as long as it impacts someone else. If there is going to be money, anguish and sweat to make a new road then it should surely be a practical solution extending beyond the next few years. Too painful to have to go through the process twice.

During the recent years of PMAR discussion I have heard a number of HPP residents complain about how their properties should not be affected. I have never once heard protest of the Keaau Bypass which greatly eased traffic in and through Keaau and Keaau homes were lost to create it. I have never heard anyone say "I refuse to drive the Keaau Bypass because someone's home was purchased and removed to create it".

[mgeary]

I'd just like to give an "attaboy/attagirl/attaperson" to those who are involved in this discussion here on PunaWeb, and more importantly, at the level of local governance.

I'm not informed enough to voice an opinion about which proposal is better, but I'm grateful to see the issues aired and discussed. Without supporting Rob T.'s specific plan, I will say that I think he's absolutely on target with the concept of lack of planning resulting in poor outcomes. The Honolulu example is a good one, but there are many others, i.e. the L.A. basin, the "Big Dig" in Boston, etc.

And from what I've seen, urban planning, traffic planning, development plans, "zones of influence", etc., are meaningless unless they are carried out to actuality. Every time that an application for a waiver or exemption to the plan is granted (cronyism can creep into this process) is an instance where something will have to be made up for in the future.

Good luck and best wishes.

Aloha! ;-)

[Seeb]

I dont live on any of the proposed routes. i spent 23 years trying to make the town were i lived better, safer.i havnt been able to shake the idea of town spirit yet. The residents of HPP have been taxed and neglected, abused by past administrations attitude of "if you wanted to live like you had rights you should have moved to hilo". That when they hear any plan they figure someones trying to do something TO us and not for us.

There are admittedly also some NIMBYs. like everywhere else

[Kapohocat]

After sitting in traffic a few days between Subway/Hilo and past Shipman Ind. park going south on 19 - how will this all connect with town and creating alternate access ?


I didnt see it on James' map where it might connect to Hwy 19 or somewhere on RR.

Will mac nut rd dump right back onto 19 or drop you onto RR?

[Rob Tucker]

A PMAR connection to Hilo is another can of worms to figure out.

My preference is Puainako and the possibly the Airport Road. Puainako is a four lane divided roadway past Safeway and Longs. Why it is a four lane is a bit of a mystery. It would seem that there are or were intentions for it to go somewhere. But Pauinako is interesting for a few reasons. I mention the Airport because I would love to see a bus run to and from the airport.

1. It does not really connect with Hwy. 11 as a route to town and so reduces traffic on that inbound.
2. It accesses major shopping destinations
3. It aims directly uphill toward the Saddle Road and Komohana routes.

There may be better ideas out there.

[PaulW]

Rob, I like the simplicity of your plan and I especially like the thought of it providing public transport access for us HPP residents.

[JWFITZ]

It is worth considering whether or not a alternate route will actually create traffic relief. It may not. There may be significant unmet demand for building that is stalled because the traffic or lack of other infrastructure is a deterrent to the buildout. This is often the case, and developers seek and profit by these scenarios, buying inexpensive properties and waiting for the waiting for the state funded infrastructure to make these sorts of properties viable. Profiting, of course, on and of what can only be seen as a direct taxpayer subsidy. It is important to consider whether or not it's at least possible that while building an alternate route might ease traffic for a couple of years, the net effect is simply more development, and there result likely two totally packed routes a few years beyond that. Then what, a third? It may well be the best thing to do nothing at all.

A study is warranted. Precedents exist.

[Daniel]

I like BOTH Ideas. Make an exit on each one with the new highway coming somewhere near the airport and end at the airport intersection. Maybe even continue on to keaukaha.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Tucker

A PMAR connection to Hilo is another can of worms to figure out.

My preference is Puainako and the possibly the Airport Road. Puainako is a four lane divided roadway past Safeway and Longs. Why it is a four lane is a bit of a mystery. It would seem that there are or were intentions for it to go somewhere. But Pauinako is interesting for a few reasons. I mention the Airport because I would love to see a bus run to and from the airport.

1. It does not really connect with Hwy. 11 as a route to town and so reduces traffic on that inbound.
2. It accesses major shopping destinations
3. It aims directly uphill toward the Saddle Road and Komohana routes.

There may be better ideas out there.

---

Daniel R Diamond

[JerryCarr]

Ah, the contentious subject of the PMAR raises its head again. As someone who lives in HPP, is active in the community, and has tried to initiate some discussion on this subject, I tend to be somewhat cynical. Watching the County and the State DOT for several years has compounded my cynicism.

The DOT is hell-bent on four-laning Highway 130, and I don't think that element of the bigger picture is going to change, advisory groups notwithstanding. The DOT does not like to listen to citizen input and usually doesn't.

The County, as Seeb so aptly puts it, is happy to tax HPP, but loathe to provide any real services or infrastructure, much less plan intelligently for same. They will treat us like ugly red-headed stepchildren and then tell us they are doing us a favor when they push the down-and-dirty, least expensive, and least policeable sort of road through here that they can possibly come up with.

The reason the powers that be will never go for Rob's well thought out and environmentally sensitive plan is that it is too intelligent and involves too much planning for the future. Those powers that be don't have a good track record in this regard. And then there is the cost. Pay now or pay later, as they say. The County of Hawaii seems to always choose not to pay now and then pay a lot more later. Dr. Weatherford's plan has some attractive features, but I fear it will be seen as too complicated. Councilwoman Naeole has clearly stated that we need a PMAR, and I seem to recall her telling HPP that we need to be thinking of how we plan to deal with it. That is good advice, but it would be nice for a process to be initiated to accomplish it.

As for my own home community, it's the usual apathy and denial. We in HPP need to be actively reviewing all alternatives and suggesting our own, but our leaders are understandably preoccupied with the road paving project that doesn't seem to be satisfying anybody. There are certainly some NIMBY types, and there are others who are opposed to any sort of road across HPP, no matter what. Then there are those like me who could support an intelligently planned route that fully compensated those affected.

Given what we all know about the DOT and the County of Hawaii, how many of you honestly think that that between them they can:

a. Come up with or accept an intelligent, forward looking plan that involves REAL community input,

b. Adequately buffer and fully compensate the affected landowners and the community at large, and

c. Pay for the above?

Sorry for the cynicism, but that's the reality I see.

Aloha,
Jerry