Rob Tucker's PMAR Proposal

[Royall]

The truth stinks don't it Jerry!

Royall

[TheYogi]

If you're interested in forward thinking, why not bring the forward to the now, skip the road, and come up with some alternative, forwarding thinking means of getting people and things from A to B.

I say "you" because I'm nowhere smart enough but it seems like some people in this thread ARE. There's got to be some viable means of alternative transportation available that would not only solve the problems being presented, but put Puna on the map as a group of people with the guts to try something new. Maybe it's time for us to stop banging our head against the same wall and start forming some new neural networks via creative thinking.

[PaulW]

Simply doing nothing, though budget-friendly, doesn't seem a reasonable option to me.

New arrivals to East Hawaii would simply choose to live elsewhere, thereby causing
the Puna economy to atrophy.

H130 is currently the only way in and out of "the state's largest cul-de-sac" and
possibly already isn't sufficient to handle the traffic that would result from
an emergency.

As the traffic gets worse and worse there will be more and more calls for an
alternative route until one gets built. It's not a question of if, it's a question
of when, and the best time would be as soon as possible.

It would be interesting though to hear of any similar areas where they did
try to stabilize traffic by simply not building any more roads.

[Rob Tucker]

"It would be interesting though to hear of any similar areas where they did
try to stabilize traffic by simply not building any more roads."

Ojai, California

They have been fighting against any improvement in Hwy 33 for decades and have succeeded. They do have a couple mountainous alternative routes. Ojai is a very strict low growth environmental type place. Very expensive. Very exclusive. For a number of their residents the alternative to the constant traffic jam is a private helicopter.

[PaulW]

Thanks. Hmm, population 8000, not sure if that's really comparable to Puna though.

[Rob Tucker]

Part of what I'm interested in is trying to use PMAR to pave the way for smaller alternative fueled vehicles. The renovations for Hwy 130 are essentially, I believe, going to spend $56 million to build a dinosaur. A roadway designed for low milage V-8 engines, choked with traffic lights and nearly useless in a power outage or disaster.

PMAR may be our one place where some innovation can take place. The single most important feature, in my opinion, would be for PMAR to be no commercial traffic allowed and no commercial development allowed. That's the basic definition of a parkway. Keeping the heavy vehicles off that route gives smaller alternative cars a chance. There is a small car being developed which runs on compressed air. I want one.

[JWFITZ]

Ojai, CA is an interesting example. I was thinking more of the San Juan Islands in Washington State where ferry service is the bottleneck, and how new ferry routes and service only stimulated growth to even greater unsustainable states, which are now in double trouble as the the state cannot afford the ferry service. It's a real trap, and we could easily find ourselves in the same place with the roads.

So in the case of Ojai, is the policy there due to the fact that it's expensive and exclusive--or has it become expensive and exclusive because of the ecologically benign and desirable quality of life due to a no growth policy? I'm not asking this rhetorically, it's a very good question, and there may be better ways to stimulate prosperity here than building the hell out of everything in sight, a process that generally benefits very few at the cost of quality of life for most. Rather than stimulate prosperity by growth we may find it much more intelligent to stimulate prosperity by adding value. Looking at new economic models is very important at this juncture.

It's important to consider policy that won't be obsolete by the time it's built. We're facing a future of much higher fuel prices, carbon taxes, and an overall softer economy than we're used to "enjoying." How much driving fits in with that is worth considering.

Speaking of wonky impractical alternative vehicles, I've designed a rain powered vehicle that would drive from Volcano and back on water, but it's a completely stupid and useless thing worth nothing more than a media stunt--but undoubtedly would make a big "splash." LOL

If anyone wants to build such a thing, get a hold of me. It would work, but mind you it's useless.

[Bullwinkle]

I like the idea of a parkway ... but if we zoom out a bit and look at the bigger issue...
The traffic issues present themselves morning and night, run the same route at three pm and it’s wide open.
Roads still follow the decentralized urban sprawl model. Why not move the jobs to where the people live in small decentralized clusters.
Other solutions like limiting commercial office hours to 8-5 and big box retail 12-9 to manage the traffic patterns until parkways can be built. Very simple social solutions that will have a huge impact without pouring a bucket of concrete.
Or make the development that drives the traffic pay for the new parkways / roadways as they come in.
Development without support of and an assessment of the effects on infrastructure - schools, public places and roads always seems to impact the community negatively. I think there is more to it than just building more roads if we want to sustain our unique quality of live. I hope Puna does not become another California like asphalt parking lot full of "Commuters". That’s certainly not my idea of planning or Hawaii.

[PaulW]

"If you're interested in forward thinking, why not bring the forward to the now, skip the road, and come up with some alternative, forwarding thinking means of getting people and things from A to B."

Okay, I've heard that under HPP is the world's biggest cave system, thanks to the lava tubes. Let's run a light rail through there.

[mgeary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Tucker

Part of what I'm interested in is trying to use PMAR to pave the way for smaller alternative fueled vehicles. The renovations for Hwy 130 are essentially, I believe, going to spend $56 million to build a dinosaur. A roadway designed for low milage V-8 engines, choked with traffic lights and nearly useless in a power outage or disaster.

PMAR may be our one place where some innovation can take place. The single most important feature, in my opinion, would be for PMAR to be no commercial traffic allowed and no commercial development allowed. That's the basic definition of a parkway. Keeping the heavy vehicles off that route gives smaller alternative cars a chance. There is a small car being developed which runs on compressed air. I want one.

---

With respect, Rob, you're mixing apples and oranges, Rob. A conventional roadway (of whichever route best fits the needs, costs, etc.) is one thing. Choosing to mandate fuel efficiency standards is a completely different thing, as California found out recently. A light rail system is a different thing, too, as is a ferry system a la Seattle, hovercraft, pod racers, and warp drive vehicles. (Just a little "levity", ahem... ;-)

Focus, focus, focus is my suggestion. If you propose a conventional roadway thru HPP for the PMAR, let others worry about compressed air vehicles, or take that up as a separate issue in a separate forum. Current traffic standards, as far as I'm aware, don't distinguish between low-mileage or high-mileage types of vehicles for road width, number of lights per mile, grade, siderails, etc.

Aloha! ;-)