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Jay we have been talking numbers regarding PMAR. What do you think we are referring to when we speak of projected population of Puna based on the actual number of existing legal lots? You are not the only person who has thought of numbers. Do not be blinded by your own brilliance. The whole transportation model is completely number driven. Down to counting the tires at various intersections at various hours of the day and night.
Meanwhile I am intrigued by your sense of "progressive". I invite you to start a topic, or I will, on possible progressive projections of Puna's future. I would be interested in everyone's views on the future(s) of Puna.
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Assume the best and ask questions.
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Which way would you like to have it? Is the 80th percentile capable of buying property, or broke? This is a question that can be answered, regardless of day to day valuations . A bank can handle those calculations, at least in this environment where you don't get to lie about everything anymore--so we can see. Again, we know the other folks are broke and not buying property in Hawaii. 4 years ago they could, and did. Today, they don't. We're only concerned with those who can, and would. That's a surprisingly small demographic, I expect.
There is a land rush occurring. It's off the radar, buying big lots off of Craig's list with cash. This is the next group of players here in Puna. Be forewarned. I'm a moderate, and mostly broke. When this crowd gets dialed up to play, Tiburon, here we come.
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Rob, my intent is not to be contentious, nor be blinded by my own brilliance, which often doesn't. Rather, if those sorts of questions have been duly raised, let's see the data that supports such conclusions. That's all.
Produce the numbers. Then we can decide the need for roads, and decide where the roads should be.
Projected lots is every bit as good as projected acres or lots or hotel rooms. We need a larger view and it involve a more intelligent look at the issues than that. I understand why no one want to look at the issue, because to look at it squarely requires a look at all sorts of issues most of which are very scary and projects a very different future than many would like to think about. I doubt that's a can of worms anyone really wants to talk about. I don't mind doing that, as I do every day, but it's not a Punaweb topic, per se.
That's all. Has anybody done a good projection study or just made assumptions? This is a simple enough question, and has nothing to do with my personal brilliance past the point where I'm sufficiently beyond disabled to understand the basic core issues. If that's the bar we're making, well, that's tough.
If the data doesn't exist or can't be produced, that's another issue.
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It's all valid questions, but the PMAR corridor is an item that's been in discussions for a long, long time. It's passed the point of social commentary. Government and community have all said its needed and the science behind the need has been debated and settled. What is now the pressing issue is the route of this road. The only thing to stop it is, as Seeb put it, they decide Puna is a bunch of rejects, misfits, and idiots so to hell with them and screw the road. But the money will be spent; in Puna, the west side or on the mainland. The funds will not go to build a community social economic get together ramada, it will be for a public road.
As I said before, there is time to discuss the road design and restrictions. But the clock is ticking fast on the available funds and when they are gone, you can kiss off everything. If you decide a single alternating lane restricted to cars running on used Kona Coffee grinds, with walking trails, horse paths, pig chariots HOV lanes, and a bike path for use by stoned out Rasta bicyclists is what it will be, decide that when that is on the table. The only item where funds are available to complete the task is route selection. If funds are available to select a site to establish a food pantry, what the heck will the discussion over the causes of hunger, what color bags to use, or if the people should enter left to right or right to left, have to do with the issue at hand?
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Settled by whom?
With what information?
All I'm asking for is to see the validation of the principles behind all this.
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"When this crowd gets dialed up to play, Tiburon, here we come."
Who are these people? I'll gladly sell them my land for an inflated price.
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Why do you expect this very savvy crowd pays inflated prices?
That's not me by the way, I payed top dollar for property from someone I cared about and made no counteroffer. But the new generation is a different crowd. Even two years hence one can say that.
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Have you read the PCDP, any of the PMAR proposals, any of the PMAR reports and studies? How about the PRCP, of Hawaii DOT SIPT(?) reference Puna? Did you read the FEMA report after the last major earthquake? Did you glance at the EPA report concerning PGV and a worse case disaster scenario? Maybe telling us what you read and why you question what is in there would be easier.
I just started looking at this in the last several months and I’m over 3,500 miles away, yet I have thousands upon thousands of pages of studies and reports (government, private, paid consultants, community, individuals, media, you name it) that all point to the same conclusion: the need for an alternative to 130 & 11 is a overdue priority.
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I've read the PCDP and my eyes glazed over, especially after reading the specific prohibition for native Hawaiian housing. Perhaps if you've read the rest, you can cut to the chase and link me to the pertinent parts of the rest. I stand to be informed. Inform away.
Produce a few. I'm not irrational. I'm just looking for some first principle validation. If someone can produce that, I'm all about it. I just want good evidence that supports the contention, in the context of where we are and what the future holds, why we need more roads. That's all. Period. That's all. Period. If you have it, produce away.
It would interesting to shift the burden of proof from me to someone else.
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Tiburon is some very expensive real estate in California, I gather.
So what are you saying, that some people are buying up all the land in Puna to make it an exclusive community? Haven't noticed that in the land prices but I'll pay closer attention.
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