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First it's not a new law just expanding the geographical area it covers to include areas outside the downtown Hilo commercial area.
The selling of items is still considered soliciting as defined in 14.74 (10). It would be prohibited if it involves any of the criteria listed in 14.75 (a) 1-12. Except if the permission as listed in 4, 6, 7, or 8 is obtained. So I would say if they are just passively selling goods and they are not violating any of the absolute no-no's of 1, 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, 11,& 12 and they are selling as described in 4, 6, 7, or 8 with permission, they wouldn't be violating the law.
As an FYI, this is nothing new. It's the same as many other laws through the US dealing with soliciting, begging, and panhandling that creates safety concerns. I mean, if anyone really reads it, I'm sure they would be hard pressed to find anything wrong with it. It does not prevent soliciting, begging or panhandling; it curbs abusive behavior of those acts against the good of public welfare.
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Can't speak for any law I don't know, and it's wise to consult proper legal advice, but just as people misunderstand what this law means as far as what it bans, so does those who say you’re doing something wrong when you may not be.
It appears this law is not a "permission to" but rather a "prohibition against". So it does not say what can be done, it states what can not be done. Now this is not the only law covering your actions. You will also need to read up on the HCC sections governing litter control, impeding sidewalk traffic, etc. It is worthy to mention that nothing in HCC expressly and outright prohibits the distribution of handbill. Many municipalities will have laws that specifically govern the do's and don't of flyer distribution and similar items, but HCC seems to be about prohibiting offensive conduct while engaged in these activities, and not the activity itself.
Now, I am not an attorney or a representative of any Hawaii government so you need to consult one of them for the definitive answer. But a quick read should give you the most important info you need.
COOS BAY, Ore. - A police survey says panhandlers outside Wal-Mart in Coos Bay can make $300 a day. Inside, it takes a clerk a week to make that much.
Sad but true
I doubt any panhandlers in Pahoa are making this kind of money[  ] But if they are... I need to change jobs real quick[  ]
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Coming home soon!
Looks like Auntie changed her mind a bit[ ]
Her original proposal sought to outlaw all forms of solicitation islandwide, including "soliciting the sale of goods or services." Such wording, now in effect in downtown Hilo, would include street vendors.
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Coming home soon!
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Just to clear this up some more especially for Damon. If you actually ran a business in Pahoa you would be acutely aware of how little laws there are in place to get rid of unwanted, lingering, criminal elements. Public drunkenness and loitering are not offenses, and open container is nearly impossible to convict. So we merchants(and police) will take any help we can get when it comes removing pervasive criminal elements from our town. The bill is not aimed at an innocent person trying to make money while passively selling goods. There is nothing ironic at all about what Emily is supporting, as it developed from meetings with local merchants, the police, and elected officials.
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I once was going to a 7-11 store and as i approached the store a guy hit me up for some change. On my way out of the store I turned the corner and saw the same guy counting a wad of cash that could have choked a horse. He then proceeded to jump into a brand new ford F-150 Pick up truck with paper plates on it and drive off. After that day I would never give to panhandlers again. I think selling items is awhole different beast than begging for money. Some of these Panhandlers are using borderline strong arm robbery tactics. They follow people and ust wont let it go. Entrepreneurs YES...BUMS NO !!!
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Reminds me of the time, many years ago when I was in
college and had very little money. I was doing my weekly
grocery shopping - trying to figure how to stretch the
money I had to feed me the whole week - and mainly buying
things like beans, rice, etc. In front of me in the checkout
was a young, yuppie-looking couple with a full shopping cart
of things I couldn't come close to affording - high end
beef cuts, etc. I was a little suprised when they paid
for it all with food stamps. Then, as I was leaving the
store, I see them loading their new red sports car with
their bags - parked in a handicap zone. You just shake
your head - and secretly hope they get their comeupance
someday.
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I once knew a panhandler. CEO of a large corporation. Made hundreds of thousands a year. Owned a sports franchise. Kept a tax lawyer on retainer and paid zero taxes. Used a company credit card for car, groceries, toys, country clubs and restaraunts. When he finally drove his company into the ground he was bailed out and later elected President of the United States. Now his buddies are panhandlers too![ ]
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Well said Greg!!!
Uluhe Design
Native Landscape Design
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I don't know so much about Pahoa, though I've spent quite a bit of time there over the years- but in Kona there sometimes are some pretty aggressive panhandlers. I saw someone here suggested telling them "no". That's a good way to handle it- the cops rarely enforce ordinances like this anyhow. I take this route this sometimes, but on more than one occasion the panhandler's response has been pretty derogatory, and one time I actually ended up having to physically sit the guy down and tell him that he's overstepping his bounds, and that he is going to find himself in a really bad spot if he doesn't stop.
The problem with some panhandlers is that (like any demographic) some of them can be really dumb and really nasty. Others can be kids looking to buy a pack of smokes, a local drunk looking to get a bottle of wine- whatever. But it only takes a couple bad apples to bring down the whole cart.
Truth be told, I was homeless once- for over a year, back in 81-82, and I know where they think they are coming from. But coming from the standpoint of one who has been there, if I owned a business I'd be really pissed about someone harassing my customers for spare change.
I have to wonder what happened to the local boys who used to regulate this island pretty well. I know where some of them are but there is really not much of a new guard- none that have any kind of standards. Everyone is too busy drinking and drugging to watch over their home, yeah? Sad.
Only The Half Mad are Wholly Alive. (Edward Abbey)
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